Virgin refuse to let Military staff travel in uniform
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My 2p from this article:
It would seem that PO Howse has had an email rant which has then been leaked to the Mail by her 'friend'.
G4S should get the kicking for this rather than Virgin, as it was on security advice that the Virgin staff acted.
You should never be made to feel embarrassed for wearing the uniform of your Country. If other people feel uncomfortable that's their problem.
Security considerations of travelling in public in uniform should be considered. Northern Ireland is still an issue, if much reduced from the 'bad old days'.
People in the UK have less respect for the military than in the US. As I currently serve in the US this is obvious every single day. In the US active duty military and their families are automatically TSA pre-approved, on duty travel or off duty, allowing a much quicker and more pleasant experience at airport security. Hence PO Howse would have had an easy time at LAX but quite different at Heathrow. Why am I not surprised?
On duty travel I have worn uniform when flying US internally as I have gone straight from my normal work to my detached work. This has led to several interesting and friendly discussions with US forces personnel and veterans on flights, plus priority boarding with some Airlines. When travelling back to UK I normally wear civvies, on a rushed compassionate case I may not, depending on the situation. It is normal in the multiple times I have transited Dulles to see military personnel from other countries wearing uniform, Germans, Italians and an African nation being recent sightings.
I've served on 2 different Squadrons with PO Howse and she has always had a very sensible head on her shoulders and is a first rate Petty Officer. I would have been frustrated too, had I been treated the way she was treated. The UK could learn a lot from the US across a whole breadth of industries when it comes to the real meaning of 'customer service'.
It would seem that PO Howse has had an email rant which has then been leaked to the Mail by her 'friend'.
G4S should get the kicking for this rather than Virgin, as it was on security advice that the Virgin staff acted.
You should never be made to feel embarrassed for wearing the uniform of your Country. If other people feel uncomfortable that's their problem.
Security considerations of travelling in public in uniform should be considered. Northern Ireland is still an issue, if much reduced from the 'bad old days'.
People in the UK have less respect for the military than in the US. As I currently serve in the US this is obvious every single day. In the US active duty military and their families are automatically TSA pre-approved, on duty travel or off duty, allowing a much quicker and more pleasant experience at airport security. Hence PO Howse would have had an easy time at LAX but quite different at Heathrow. Why am I not surprised?
On duty travel I have worn uniform when flying US internally as I have gone straight from my normal work to my detached work. This has led to several interesting and friendly discussions with US forces personnel and veterans on flights, plus priority boarding with some Airlines. When travelling back to UK I normally wear civvies, on a rushed compassionate case I may not, depending on the situation. It is normal in the multiple times I have transited Dulles to see military personnel from other countries wearing uniform, Germans, Italians and an African nation being recent sightings.
I've served on 2 different Squadrons with PO Howse and she has always had a very sensible head on her shoulders and is a first rate Petty Officer. I would have been frustrated too, had I been treated the way she was treated. The UK could learn a lot from the US across a whole breadth of industries when it comes to the real meaning of 'customer service'.
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Sir Richard Branson has publicly apologized on a social media website that can't be mentioned for the mistake both for the airport security guard giving incorrect information to Virgin staff and for Virgin staff listening to it.
Last edited by hawk-eye; 9th Mar 2013 at 18:20.
why would anyone wish to travel in combat kit?
FWIW, I rarely give lifts to folks when driving, but someone in uniform is the only type of person I consider opening my car door for. Something my father started me doing ....
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If this story is true it is no different from someone being denied boarding because they are black.
The people involved in denying her boarding should be facing - and receiving - prison sentences for such appalling bigotry.
Name and shame. These pigs do not deserve to breathe the same air as real human beings.
The people involved in denying her boarding should be facing - and receiving - prison sentences for such appalling bigotry.
Name and shame. These pigs do not deserve to breathe the same air as real human beings.
Load toad agree entirely
“Travel for military purposes including returning home at military expense or return to work” I don’t see a reason why you could not travel in uniform anymore than I can see a reason when ordered not to wear uniform off base due to terrorist activities years ago to do so.
I don’t care/mind if you are gay, bi, non-sexual, any more than I care what religious belief you are. I do care when you start pushing it in my face and when you take that as a right then I have a right to push my beliefs back in your face. It is not a culture of "poof and queers". Do I swell with pride at the sight of uniforms in a march. I should and would if the uniforms in a march were about what we do in uniform (no that's your private affair) and what we stand for as the military not as, in this case, individuals. The offence is purely bought on by the tedium of a minority ruling the majority. Why do you have to wear your work clothes in a parade? I don’t wear my batman outfit to work.
It is purely “this might ruffle feathers, it is an issue because the rules states only on official purposes” (I don’t think a gay parade is an official purpose)” and therefore the rules are changed because the indigant feelings of a minority ( what is it 4% or 14% are gay in the military) gets an established rule changed for themselves. Is/was the rule unreasonable. Probably to those who think that unless they can do whatever they want than a rule is unreasonable.
AB
Very much the point.
Very much not the point and the same attitude as the "poofs and queers" culture.
“Travel for military purposes including returning home at military expense or return to work” I don’t see a reason why you could not travel in uniform anymore than I can see a reason when ordered not to wear uniform off base due to terrorist activities years ago to do so.
I suppose you are entitled to your outdated anti-homosexual opinions Old Fella, but I fear you are in a minority in this forum, where thankfully most of us have moved on from the "poofs and queers" culture of the past.
It is purely “this might ruffle feathers, it is an issue because the rules states only on official purposes” (I don’t think a gay parade is an official purpose)” and therefore the rules are changed because the indigant feelings of a minority ( what is it 4% or 14% are gay in the military) gets an established rule changed for themselves. Is/was the rule unreasonable. Probably to those who think that unless they can do whatever they want than a rule is unreasonable.AB
If this story is true
Name and shame. These pigs do not deserve to breathe the same air as real human beings.
Once a year we are treated to the spectacle of a fair number of uniformed service personnel acting as unpaid stewards at a tennis championship which appears to have no direct connection with our defence forces. This event doesn't interest me in the slightest, but if these men and women choose to give up their spare time to take part in a minor way then I have no objection to them wearing their uniforms as long as they polish their shoes and look smart.
In most of our lifetimes homosexuals were forbidden to be members of the armed forces as the fact that their practices were illegal, and thus rendered them susceptible to blackmail, made them a security risk. Now after much campaigning and no small personal sacrifice these people are now entitled to be full members of our armed forces and to risk their lives alongside their "straight" comrades in arms. If some of them wish to celebrate this fact by wearing their uniforms at a gay pride event, then good luck to them.
In most of our lifetimes homosexuals were forbidden to be members of the armed forces as the fact that their practices were illegal, and thus rendered them susceptible to blackmail, made them a security risk. Now after much campaigning and no small personal sacrifice these people are now entitled to be full members of our armed forces and to risk their lives alongside their "straight" comrades in arms. If some of them wish to celebrate this fact by wearing their uniforms at a gay pride event, then good luck to them.
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 9th Mar 2013 at 22:43.
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Orca, there are several reasons, many of which are listed amongst the 400+ replies to the DM thread, the 200+ comments on Arrse, e-goat etc. And she is a friend of a FB friend, and even through the medium of social media, she is yet to come up with a reason why she chose to spend the best part of 24 hours travelling in uniform when she didnt have to.
However the main one is JSP800, which details the class of travel and the mandatory rest time after a long-haul flight. I'm sure as an aviator, you would not be comfortable taking an aircraft that had been serviced by someone who had spent the last 24 hours travelling half-way across the world to be rushed to join "your fight".
I doubt "But I looked smart in my MTP sir" would wash in any subsequent BOI.
However the main one is JSP800, which details the class of travel and the mandatory rest time after a long-haul flight. I'm sure as an aviator, you would not be comfortable taking an aircraft that had been serviced by someone who had spent the last 24 hours travelling half-way across the world to be rushed to join "your fight".
I doubt "But I looked smart in my MTP sir" would wash in any subsequent BOI.
You should never be made to feel embarrassed for wearing the uniform of your Country. If other people feel uncomfortable that's their problem.
Maybe the lady didn't handle the PR particularly well but that aside and FWIW there are a (very) few G4S "operatives" who seem to have issues with airline crew travelling as passengers whilst wearing uniform - I would imagine the sight of someone wearing a "genuine" military uniform would send those individuals into complete melt down.
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I have the greatest sympathy for this young lady. Oddly enough, I was involved a few years ago in a similar incident, in reverse. I've managed to dig out the press cutting from the time:
"Mainly Daily", 10 March 1983
Plucky Youngster in Uniform Humiliation
A local youngster has told our reporter how he was left "shocked and humiliated" when travel officials made him change from his own clothes and put on a blue uniform before beginning a sea cruise.
TicketyBoo said the problems began well before the voyage. "I'd gone to the P&O office in Liverpool to book a relaxing sea voyage, but found them closed for lunch. Luckily I spotted the office of another shipping company a few doors away, with pictures of their cruise ships in the window. I have to say the booking process was a bit chaotic. They wouldn't take a deposit, and before the cruise you had to hang around for months in a big house in Devon."
But the problems began in earnest when Mr Boo reached the advertised cruise ship. Although smartly dressed in a tweed jacket and brogue shoes, company officials insisted he wear what they called "uniform".
"It was awful" he recalled, "nothing quite fitted, there were bits of funny embroidery sewn on, and I even had to wear a hat with the company's advertising logo on."
Our reporter asked whether the problems continued when the cruise began. "To be fair" TicketyBoo replied, "once we got to sea the cruise was great fun. The Activity Co-ordinators went to a lot of trouble to make sure all the passengers felt involved." They let passengers draw lines on maps, look at numbers on twirly machines, drop things over the side and play with fireworks. Even the food was excellent. "I have a medical condition which means I can only eat warm corned beef and cold chips." said Mr Boo. "The staff went out of their way to meet my dietary requirements every day."
So would he use this company again? "To be honest," he told our reporter, " I would have to recommend to anyone else in my position that they wait for the P&O people to come back from lunch. They may be more expensive, but you can wear your own clothes."
A spokesman for the shipping company, Mr Henry Leach, apologised: "It is clear that we did not maintain our excellent standards of customer care in this case. As a goodwill gesture, we are sending the customer a rail voucher to help him get home again, but not via London."
[Off to pub - bung this in if nothing better comes in overnight. Ed]
"Mainly Daily", 10 March 1983
Plucky Youngster in Uniform Humiliation
A local youngster has told our reporter how he was left "shocked and humiliated" when travel officials made him change from his own clothes and put on a blue uniform before beginning a sea cruise.
TicketyBoo said the problems began well before the voyage. "I'd gone to the P&O office in Liverpool to book a relaxing sea voyage, but found them closed for lunch. Luckily I spotted the office of another shipping company a few doors away, with pictures of their cruise ships in the window. I have to say the booking process was a bit chaotic. They wouldn't take a deposit, and before the cruise you had to hang around for months in a big house in Devon."
But the problems began in earnest when Mr Boo reached the advertised cruise ship. Although smartly dressed in a tweed jacket and brogue shoes, company officials insisted he wear what they called "uniform".
"It was awful" he recalled, "nothing quite fitted, there were bits of funny embroidery sewn on, and I even had to wear a hat with the company's advertising logo on."
Our reporter asked whether the problems continued when the cruise began. "To be fair" TicketyBoo replied, "once we got to sea the cruise was great fun. The Activity Co-ordinators went to a lot of trouble to make sure all the passengers felt involved." They let passengers draw lines on maps, look at numbers on twirly machines, drop things over the side and play with fireworks. Even the food was excellent. "I have a medical condition which means I can only eat warm corned beef and cold chips." said Mr Boo. "The staff went out of their way to meet my dietary requirements every day."
So would he use this company again? "To be honest," he told our reporter, " I would have to recommend to anyone else in my position that they wait for the P&O people to come back from lunch. They may be more expensive, but you can wear your own clothes."
A spokesman for the shipping company, Mr Henry Leach, apologised: "It is clear that we did not maintain our excellent standards of customer care in this case. As a goodwill gesture, we are sending the customer a rail voucher to help him get home again, but not via London."
[Off to pub - bung this in if nothing better comes in overnight. Ed]
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I'm sure as an aviator, you would not be comfortable taking an aircraft that had been serviced by someone who had spent the last 24 hours travelling half-way across the world to be rushed to join "your fight".
Actually that scenario could well happen, there is no hours restriction on engineers as there is for crew.
There has been discussion of late I believe in some quarters about that needing to be addressed. See
NTSB: need to regulate maintenance duty times | AskBob.aero
Whilst in the RAF I actually came close, I did a night shift 7.30 PM to 7.30 AM at 6.00 AM we were tasked to get an engine plus tooling ready with transport to travel to Lynham for a 10.30 AM departure to Gander for an ECU change.. 8 hours later after unloading everything it was expected by those at Gander that we would get straight on with changing it! And no we didn't.
Last edited by NutLoose; 10th Mar 2013 at 17:45.
Gentleman Aviator
there is no hours restriction on engineers as there is for crew
At an Execs, SEngO said that he would put his troops on a "war shift pattern" of 12 on 12 off; whereupon one of the flying Flt Cdrs pointed out that the aircrew were "normally" on (up to) a 14/10.
Oh how we laughed...
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I spoke to her about the incident, and surprisingly the Mail is close to the mark, however:
She didn't leak it to the press. Her friend in the UK gave them the story;
Having travelled from lovely Californ I A, she didn't have much warm kit with her other than good old PCS to wear in the lovely UK weather.
Branson has been pretty good about this. As soon as he heard, Branson sent her a personal e-mail etc. etc., but the Mail was already into the story.
She did take details of G4S's complaints dept before even getting near the plane and being forced to change, but has been a bit busy at work so far to send them a complaint without four letter words remaining). We look forward to their reply exonerating the 'security' guard who set this all in motion.
Some facts. Nuff said.
She didn't leak it to the press. Her friend in the UK gave them the story;
Having travelled from lovely Californ I A, she didn't have much warm kit with her other than good old PCS to wear in the lovely UK weather.
Branson has been pretty good about this. As soon as he heard, Branson sent her a personal e-mail etc. etc., but the Mail was already into the story.
She did take details of G4S's complaints dept before even getting near the plane and being forced to change, but has been a bit busy at work so far to send them a complaint without four letter words remaining). We look forward to their reply exonerating the 'security' guard who set this all in motion.
Some facts. Nuff said.
