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Yet another F4 sim question

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Yet another F4 sim question

Old 10th Mar 2013, 03:08
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Yet another F4 sim question

Coningsby F4 simulator- 70's question.
I asked this at end of an earlier thread, but got no joy, so - more help!
I recall the visual model in the Coningsby F4 sim as described by others- a vertical two sided huge model, with a moving camera on rails- very analog. I don't recall that we ever used it tho- it might have been U/S. This was mid 70's. However...

I seem to recall that one side was modelled on Coningsby (naturally) and the other on an airfield in a certain Eastern European country. I also remember that we sometimes did sim rides based on an airfield in said country. I assume it was to break the monotony for all concerned.. Anyone else remember this, and especially why THAT particular airfield and location was chosen??? (yes I know there was a cold war on)
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Old 10th Mar 2013, 17:55
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I was at Coningsby when the F4 sim came online - probably around 1970. Prior to that no first tourists were trained as the sim was thought necessary for them. The visual model was used from the beginning and was at the time state of the art but it was all too easy to take the camera to the edge of the board in use and 'crash' the visual.

If I remember correctly the local board airfield resembled Coningsby in as much as the runway heading was correct but the topography was generic rather than Lincolnshire - I think there were also some terrain height discrepancies.

The tactical board was modelled on Poland and the whole set-up was designed as a full mission simulator. So much so that the Chief Scientist at the time got us to run a trial with a new course who did the entire sim programme prior to their first flight in the jet. It was thought that this would prove that aircraft sorties could be saved by sim use - the problem with that idea was that there was no way current pilots and navigators would allow themselves to admit that this could be so! We were not stupid!

Although the visual enhanced training value it was far too mechanical and unreliable to be of long term use and it did not survive service use for very long.
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Old 10th Mar 2013, 18:02
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One of them is still on the go BTW for "trial flights"

See

Commercial & Military Flight Simulators
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Old 10th Mar 2013, 19:22
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Phantom F4 Visual

The ground attack model was based on a airfield in Poland as Soddim has said.

I'm pretty sure however it could also be located at any position as required by the instructor.

On the F4s at Bruggen, Laarbruch and on one of the simulators at Coningsby there was an analogue Radar Landmass Simulator(RLMS). This covered an area of 1250 by 1250 Nautical Miles way into the old soviet territory. This covered the location of the GA model. The visual scene synchronised with the ground returns (in theory at least).

I left Coningsby in July 1975 and the visual systems were just being de-commissioned as I left. I believe the RLMS was also turned off shortly afterwards.
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Old 11th Mar 2013, 00:51
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Thank you so much for the replies, soddim, nutloose and simtech67. I guess my memory isn't that bad after all!
I remember Mielek (sp?) in Poland as the base I mentioned, and now I know why.
I don't think the ground mapping radar sim worked in my time- I think the given reason was waiting for parts.
Excellent- 40 years of nagging question answered in less than 24 hours!!
Nutloose- thanks for the link for the sim- I thought it was at the old RAF Sandtoft! (taught my wife to drive a 'standard' on the disused runways/peritrack there yonks ago).

BTW this is also my answer to the thread about why one joins PPRuNe- to share/obtain gen and relive memories.
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Old 11th Mar 2013, 00:52
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Do you think the same wall terrains were used on the Jag one, or were they new..
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Old 11th Mar 2013, 04:36
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Jag Sim visuals

NutLoose,

No, the Jag sims at Lossie were "flat-bed" models, in two configurations.

1. The "airfield" model was, in reality, two models on the same baseboard. The airfield was scaled 2000:1 and the Weapon-delivery model 4000:1.

2. The Terrain model was one full-size baseboard, 20,000:1 scale.

Usage was to lift off from the airfield, track to the model limit, whereupon the sim flew very gracefully into cloud, (in theory). Re-acquire visual on the terrain model, fly to target area, into cloud again. Out of cloud on the Weapon-delivery model, acquire target, deliver ordnance then scarper for home in the reverse order.

Edited to correct a Senior's moment, mild form of C.R.A.F.T,
The model hardware had freedom in X,Y and Z axes, with roll being produced by a very clever prism in the Optic Head path to the Waveform Monitor.

That's it in a very small nutshell.

Best regards,

TNO.

Last edited by TheNightOwl; 11th Mar 2013 at 05:07.
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Old 11th Mar 2013, 09:41
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Somehow spiders would occasionally get onto the sim model - imagine low level flying over the landscape and suddenly being confronted with a 100ft high one!
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Old 11th Mar 2013, 10:47
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Nutloose,

I've been to Real Simulation and flown their 737, just for grins. I had a good look at both sims and they look quite good. However, don't expect a fully-fledged flight sim. They have motion and reasonable visual, but it looks like only just enough switches and displays work to allow the punters to get an idea of what flying these types is about. The F4 has no rear seat or radar.

That said, they are good fun and they do have some good deals available if you call or email them. Having never landed an airliner before both Mrs C and I had 30 minutes each of handling the 737; we even did a few engine fires, aborts, single engine approaches and the like. Now I know how easy it is!!!

Never thought I'd PAY to go into a sim for FUN!
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Old 11th Mar 2013, 12:56
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Somehow spiders would occasionally get onto the sim model - imagine low level flying over the landscape and suddenly being confronted with a 100ft high one!
Not to mention jellybabies.....!
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Old 11th Mar 2013, 14:45
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And dinosaurs and Godzillas and ISTR a live cockroach sellotaped onto the over-run which scared someone who aborted a take-off!
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Old 11th Mar 2013, 15:14
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Real Simulation F4 Simulator

Actually Courtney you may well have flown the Real Simulation F4 when it was a fully working working simulator. I am pretty certain it's ex 228 OCU from Coningsby.

I seem to recall it was upgraded at great expense and had a new linkage (the bit that sits between the cockpit and the computer) fitted circa 1987/8.

It was then declared STR and sold, after a period in storage, to Real Simulation.

ST67
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