Just get yourself up there and do it....
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Sorry to have stirred up a hornets nest on this one chaps ... and sure ... you can't make out all the detail on a grainy pic ... but equally ... simply relying on a HSE "tick" list doesn't substitute for a good common sense appraisal in my book. IMHO there is machinery specifically designed to work at such heights, as can be seen with the USAF example, where a broom/sweeper could still be used more safely before dousing with de-icing chems.
As we rent the C-17 from the Americans ... presumably appropriate ground support equipment would have been part of the package including said Height Platform ... and it's complete bolleaux if someone pushes the "we can't afford it" argument
I was taught that I had a "duty of care" to the people I had the privilege to lead ... which is still ingrained
BTW Mick3 ... it was me who started with "Seriously though ..." not MAINJAFAD
Coff.
As we rent the C-17 from the Americans ... presumably appropriate ground support equipment would have been part of the package including said Height Platform ... and it's complete bolleaux if someone pushes the "we can't afford it" argument
I was taught that I had a "duty of care" to the people I had the privilege to lead ... which is still ingrained
BTW Mick3 ... it was me who started with "Seriously though ..." not MAINJAFAD
Coff.
Coff, apologies for crediting the wrong poster. I agree with all of your comments and add the following:-
I believe a different IPT organisation is responsible for airfield vehicles than for the actual platforms. This was certainly the case a few years ago (I was active and quite involved in height issues) when there were some problems with working at height issues regarding access to the top of fuel bowsers.
As far as ticks in the box are concerned the one box that I don't believe can be ticked here is the safe system of work box.
I believe a different IPT organisation is responsible for airfield vehicles than for the actual platforms. This was certainly the case a few years ago (I was active and quite involved in height issues) when there were some problems with working at height issues regarding access to the top of fuel bowsers.
As far as ticks in the box are concerned the one box that I don't believe can be ticked here is the safe system of work box.
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C17s were bought, so no longer leased.
"Rarely snows at Brize"? Well it did when I was posted there. Every winter. Not at all unusual for Oxon to be blanketed in the white stuff.
Do C17s fit in any of the sheds at BZZ?
"Rarely snows at Brize"? Well it did when I was posted there. Every winter. Not at all unusual for Oxon to be blanketed in the white stuff.
Do C17s fit in any of the sheds at BZZ?
We tend to look at the high tech as the answer to everything when some times the low tech works the best. Go through a type 1/ type 4 deice at KORD with those contract knuckleheads and I would feel a lot better with a crew member, a broom and a couple of cheap bottles vodka.
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Yep that's what I heard about falling injuries in a harness and it does comes back to if you have access equipment to get up there to recover him, why not use it to do the job in the first place, I could understand it down route, but at home base?
It certainly does, we lost a Hoover off the back of a 4 tonner and never found it until the thaw. 
BTW we had a suggestion come through from a Flt Lt Air Eng that pink dye was added to the deicing fluid so we could see we had the required coating on a white VC10
Once the pax were onboard they would close the Ten door and I or whoever was deicing would cover the front fuse with fluid ( saved it dripping on the pax when entering the aircraft ) was given the last pax was onboard message so I let rip, however some General decided he would board separately after the SLF... He was at about the top of the stairs when it hit him from over the fuselage, was not a happy chappy, a soggy sticky chappy yes and totally ice free, but definitely not a happy chappy
"Rarely snows at Brize"? Well it did when I was posted there. Every winter. Not at all unusual for Oxon to be blanketed in the white stuff.
BTW we had a suggestion come through from a Flt Lt Air Eng that pink dye was added to the deicing fluid so we could see we had the required coating on a white VC10
Once the pax were onboard they would close the Ten door and I or whoever was deicing would cover the front fuse with fluid ( saved it dripping on the pax when entering the aircraft ) was given the last pax was onboard message so I let rip, however some General decided he would board separately after the SLF... He was at about the top of the stairs when it hit him from over the fuselage, was not a happy chappy, a soggy sticky chappy yes and totally ice free, but definitely not a happy chappy
Last edited by NutLoose; 16th Jan 2013 at 20:36.
The ideal method of doing this is by using a Cherry Picker like the USAF, I have no argument with that as it meets the requirement of removing the risk of falling completely and all flying station's should have a sizable pool of them with the budget to maintain them (it would make my life so much easier as I have been involved in WaH for 21 years and the only place I ever work where WaH tasks were painless was were the IPT removed all climbing facility's, purchased a cherry picker and provided a full life maintenance contract). The downside is that they are expensive, somewhat unreliable and in some cases unusable for a task as there is no safe method of work that allows you to leave the platform if the structure you are working on does not allow access.
A question for the EngO's out there, is WaH covered in any depth in stage 1 training, The reason I ask that is on a few occasions I've had JEngO's who have been totally clueless on the subject.
Nutlose
The rescue equipment basically is a rope (in a bag) and a trained rescuer and all they have to do is get the faller to a position where he is no longer suspended. The picture doesn't tell the full story as there should be two people up there with one of them rescue trained (not the guy with the brush). Should the guy with the brush fall, the rescuer attaches the rope to the aircraft at the same point that the faller is attached to, throws the bag out so it doesn't hit victim which will result in the rope hanging beside the faller. The rescuer then abseils down, connects the faller to his harness, releases the faller from his fall arrester and lowers him to the ground. There should be a person in charge at ground level who is also the rescue co-ordinator (in this case with a management radio) who will activate any medical response. The other option is they may have some form of device available that can be rapidly moved to the height that the faller to get him down (like the cherry picker that 99 Sqn does have for de icing aircraft (pity it isn't a lot bigger!!!)).
A question for the EngO's out there, is WaH covered in any depth in stage 1 training, The reason I ask that is on a few occasions I've had JEngO's who have been totally clueless on the subject.
Nutlose
The rescue equipment basically is a rope (in a bag) and a trained rescuer and all they have to do is get the faller to a position where he is no longer suspended. The picture doesn't tell the full story as there should be two people up there with one of them rescue trained (not the guy with the brush). Should the guy with the brush fall, the rescuer attaches the rope to the aircraft at the same point that the faller is attached to, throws the bag out so it doesn't hit victim which will result in the rope hanging beside the faller. The rescuer then abseils down, connects the faller to his harness, releases the faller from his fall arrester and lowers him to the ground. There should be a person in charge at ground level who is also the rescue co-ordinator (in this case with a management radio) who will activate any medical response. The other option is they may have some form of device available that can be rapidly moved to the height that the faller to get him down (like the cherry picker that 99 Sqn does have for de icing aircraft (pity it isn't a lot bigger!!!)).
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Three words sum that rescue plan up...
What a Farce...
As the guy is attached to two points if he falls is he going to hang conveniently below one attachment or midway? I wonder if a safety man can get out to him drop a rope climb down and release him in under 5 minutes? Has anyone timed it / tried it?
eLCOSH : Will Your Safety Harness Kill You?
Spend Billions on the Aircraft but skimp on support equipment, what does it take, someone's death before they buy the right equipment to do the job?
What a Farce...
As the guy is attached to two points if he falls is he going to hang conveniently below one attachment or midway? I wonder if a safety man can get out to him drop a rope climb down and release him in under 5 minutes? Has anyone timed it / tried it?
eLCOSH : Will Your Safety Harness Kill You?
Spend Billions on the Aircraft but skimp on support equipment, what does it take, someone's death before they buy the right equipment to do the job?
Last edited by NutLoose; 17th Jan 2013 at 02:16.
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Nutloose,
I'd go back further.
How long does it take for someone to rig up, climb up, do the job
versus getting a cherry picker to the location and do it from that ?
Surely supposed savings are gone in time etc etc.
I'd go back further.
How long does it take for someone to rig up, climb up, do the job
versus getting a cherry picker to the location and do it from that ?
Surely supposed savings are gone in time etc etc.
