Lightning Mate
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The Phantom was very sensative in pitch. It took a while for any pilot to get used to. It became obvious during AAR and at low level. In the USAF we did a low level accel and slow down to demonstrate the effects of pitchup and pitch down. 200kts to 600kts in full Afterburner and then idle/idle A/B and slow down. If a stude started to PIO you would only get 2 reversals to take control of you would be another hole in the desert floor.
Question for the Lightning pilots here – what was the aircraft handling qualities like when the over-wing tanks were installed??
thing
I take it it was very interesting if you lost the pitch stab aug (in the phantom) then....
I take it it was very interesting if you lost the pitch stab aug (in the phantom) then....
To put the pitch sensitivity of the phantom in the correct ligth i like to add to the discussion. Different phantom types behaved differently, and the fuel loading and external loads had an distict effct on pitch sensibility. The F4-F had a tank 5/6 lockout switch, when used those tanks stayed dry and the pitch sensibility was history. In types where this feature was not available proper fuel management with the transfer switches could prevent any pitch problem.
The mach tuck had nothing to do with the basic aerodynamic layout and was not present in one g flight. It was a problem of the artificial feel system. In supersonic flight the feel system created a very heavy stick affording some force to change the pitch, a lot more than in the subsonic region. Therefore when decelerating from supersonic / transsonic while applying g´s the fore mentioned stick force lighting led to an increased g load for a given identical stick force applied.
Nothing an expierienced phantom driver couldn´t handle on an average day.
I´m not familiar with the spey phantoms though, only flew the F-4E / F4F, RF-4C, RF-4E types.
Keep the stories coming, you lightning mates!
franzl
Last edited by RetiredF4; 20th Dec 2012 at 20:54.
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I seem to remember the F4M had a tank 7 lockout. As I recall this was used when they were ferried away for service totally clean, otherwise you had to have two concrete Sparrows on the front stations to keep CG in limits.
When the Lightning was on it's rundown in '88 we had little to do so my boss sent me across to North Coates (funnily enough I flew into there not long ago, just a grass strip now) where for some reason they had a massive video library. North Coates was a SAM site. I cobbled together all of the Lighning vids I could find, most of which weren't in the best condition and made a master vid but I don't think anyone ever saw it apart from me. I transferred it onto DVD last year for the Lightning preservation group at Bruntingthorpe along with an interesting USAF vid from around 1960 called 'Weapons effects' which has some glorious old jets on it.
When the Lightning was on it's rundown in '88 we had little to do so my boss sent me across to North Coates (funnily enough I flew into there not long ago, just a grass strip now) where for some reason they had a massive video library. North Coates was a SAM site. I cobbled together all of the Lighning vids I could find, most of which weren't in the best condition and made a master vid but I don't think anyone ever saw it apart from me. I transferred it onto DVD last year for the Lightning preservation group at Bruntingthorpe along with an interesting USAF vid from around 1960 called 'Weapons effects' which has some glorious old jets on it.
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Originally Posted by franzl
Keep the stories coming, you lightning mates!
....along with an interesting USAF vid from around 1960 called 'Weapons effects' which has some glorious old jets on it.
Pah - enough of mud-moving! If you've got to move mud, do it with a bucket of sun and have done with it!
A very short legged aircraft, however and it seemed like we were out of gas just after we got airborne.
Last edited by BEagle; 21st Dec 2012 at 08:01.
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Was that the famous (and much appreciated) 'TAC Weapons Effect' film, which also features clips from the target itself - watching those Zuni rockets coming straight towards the camera was....interesting. The F-100 (?) which had to be abandoned after a premature detonation was also caught on camera.
Last edited by thing; 21st Dec 2012 at 09:48.
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Nice bit of film, ORAC - brings a lump to my err throat. Ah! The B-scope. Anyone know of a flt sim module?
PS Where did he pick up the missiles after refuelling?
PPS A bit late on the breakaway, Hoskins.
PS Where did he pick up the missiles after refuelling?
PPS A bit late on the breakaway, Hoskins.
Top guns fitted to early marks. You could also fit a gun pack instead of the missile pack and get 4 Aden cannon on board!! Great fun to fire but the vibration could cause problems!!
Great fun to fire but the vibration could cause problems!!
Had to tape down the RH console circuit breakers on a 4-gun shoot.
Had to tape down the RH console circuit breakers on a 4-gun shoot.
Never fired more than 1 Aden in the Hunter - but the old hands said that the noise, vibration and general fury when firing all 4 was somewhat spectacular; however, the resulting tripped CBs and double transfer failure were rather less welcome.
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Originally Posted by A A Gruntpuddock
a gun firing from the top of the nose
4 cannon - I believe fillings used to loosen in the teeth too, and they tell me the 'pussy cat' used to go backwards.
The "Full War Load" day at the end of the El Adem APC was always worthwhile.
Firing out 540 rounds of 30mm ( you had to start firing "a little out of range"), followed by 8 x SAP headed 3-inch drains in ripple made your hair stand on end.
Happy days indeed !
Notwithstanding the CB's and double transfer hiccups
Firing out 540 rounds of 30mm ( you had to start firing "a little out of range"), followed by 8 x SAP headed 3-inch drains in ripple made your hair stand on end.
Happy days indeed !
Notwithstanding the CB's and double transfer hiccups