Gloster Javelin
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The Javelin had to carry a reduced number of rounds for its cannon as they could cook off under certain circumstances with the resultant effect of injuring the back seater whose feet were in close proximity.
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Just had a look at a cutaway drawing - ammunition bays were outboard in the wings - a cooked off 30 mm would have removed the wing before it damaged the back seaters feet!
I suspect the Nav Rad was more at risk from an explosion in the starter system !
When I was on 30 Sqn (Hercules) one of the pilots had flown the Javelin, with 33. He and I had several discussions about aspects of the a/c. He said that the first time he fired the guns at night he was blind for a week ! He also diverted into Heathrow with an emergency. The RAF sent the groundcrew and spares down by train including a container of Avpin ! I should have remembered this story before I mixed up the various starting systems.
The president of 30 Sqn Association had tested the Javelin when it was to be introduced into service. He was not very complimentary about Glosters when I asked him about his experiences.
A very good read about the Javelin is 'The Quick and the Dead' by Bill Waterman
When I was on 30 Sqn (Hercules) one of the pilots had flown the Javelin, with 33. He and I had several discussions about aspects of the a/c. He said that the first time he fired the guns at night he was blind for a week ! He also diverted into Heathrow with an emergency. The RAF sent the groundcrew and spares down by train including a container of Avpin ! I should have remembered this story before I mixed up the various starting systems.
The president of 30 Sqn Association had tested the Javelin when it was to be introduced into service. He was not very complimentary about Glosters when I asked him about his experiences.
A very good read about the Javelin is 'The Quick and the Dead' by Bill Waterman
As I read here about the trouble Javelin pilots had with the A/C I commiserate a little.
During confrontation between UK and Indonesia, about merdeka for Malaya, I was an F/E on 48 Sqn Hastings doing supply drops in the Borneo jungle.
We were normally escorted by Javelins who, presumably, would direct fire from us and deal with the enemy.
On one such mission we were dropping live animals to the Gurkhas. We navigated to the balloon they sent up midst the forest trees when we were shot up by an TNI machine gunner. Our Hastings profusely leaked Avgas from both wings, and a Gurkha soldier down the back was injured, so we made an emergency landing in Kuching.
The Javelin escort landed behind us and, understandably angry, we enquired..."Where the **** were you?'
He said he couldn't fly as slow as us so he did a couple of circuits, at his speed, and didn't see the event.
We blamed everyone else for being so stupid to have something like a Javelin run escort for a drop speed Hasting..Jeez.. we used to drop at _130K which is probably below Vstall for an A-frame aircraft like a Javelin.
We shook hands and had a beer!
The local, and eventually extremely loyal, Dyaks found the perpretators and chopped off their heads.
Our Sqn Cmdr (S/L), later promoted of course, dutifully went to Kuching to present the 48 Sqn Plaque, and a couple bags of rice, to the headman of the Dyak tribe....and take pictures.
Today, somewhere in Sarawak, there is 48 Sqn memorabilia.
Ironically, I've been married to my gorgeous Indonesian wife for 26 years and live in Bali, Indonesia...so let us not even talk about 'sleeping with the enemy'.
During confrontation between UK and Indonesia, about merdeka for Malaya, I was an F/E on 48 Sqn Hastings doing supply drops in the Borneo jungle.
We were normally escorted by Javelins who, presumably, would direct fire from us and deal with the enemy.
On one such mission we were dropping live animals to the Gurkhas. We navigated to the balloon they sent up midst the forest trees when we were shot up by an TNI machine gunner. Our Hastings profusely leaked Avgas from both wings, and a Gurkha soldier down the back was injured, so we made an emergency landing in Kuching.
The Javelin escort landed behind us and, understandably angry, we enquired..."Where the **** were you?'
He said he couldn't fly as slow as us so he did a couple of circuits, at his speed, and didn't see the event.
We blamed everyone else for being so stupid to have something like a Javelin run escort for a drop speed Hasting..Jeez.. we used to drop at _130K which is probably below Vstall for an A-frame aircraft like a Javelin.
We shook hands and had a beer!
The local, and eventually extremely loyal, Dyaks found the perpretators and chopped off their heads.
Our Sqn Cmdr (S/L), later promoted of course, dutifully went to Kuching to present the 48 Sqn Plaque, and a couple bags of rice, to the headman of the Dyak tribe....and take pictures.
Today, somewhere in Sarawak, there is 48 Sqn memorabilia.
Ironically, I've been married to my gorgeous Indonesian wife for 26 years and live in Bali, Indonesia...so let us not even talk about 'sleeping with the enemy'.
Last edited by Davita; 2nd Sep 2013 at 16:57.
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I was in Kuching when a round "cooked off" in a Javelin whilst on Finals, cleared the runway [09, so straight to dispersal] fireman no1 runs under the wing with hosepipe, fireman no2 climbs onto wing to "help" the crew. Another round cooks off. Gun panel misses No1 by inches, but bins no2 off the wing, breaking his leg. This was late 1964/early 1965 I believe that the Javelin was a write off. [I was at 487 SU at the time]
Possibly happened, but not between June '64 and May '65. I was on 60/64 at Kuching then, except for a couple of weeks leave in Feb 65 and would certainly have heard about it, and noticed another dead Javelin. The only write-off during that time was an avpin fire on start up after an engine change; we robbed all the useful bits off it and left it on the South pan. I guess it was scrapped when we left.
I was in Kuching when a round "cooked off" in a Javelin whilst on Finals,
cleared the runway [09, so straight to dispersal] fireman no1 runs under the
wing with hosepipe, fireman no2 climbs onto wing to "help" the crew. Another
round cooks off. Gun panel misses No1 by inches, but bins no2 off the wing,
breaking his leg. This was late 1964/early 1965 I believe that the Javelin was a
write off. [I was at 487 SU at the time]
I was in Kuching when a round "cooked off" in a Javelin whilst on Finals,
cleared the runway [09, so straight to dispersal] fireman no1 runs under the
wing with hosepipe, fireman no2 climbs onto wing to "help" the crew. Another
round cooks off. Gun panel misses No1 by inches, but bins no2 off the wing,
breaking his leg. This was late 1964/early 1965 I believe that the Javelin was a
write off. [I was at 487 SU at the time]
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When I was in the Air Cadets our Chairman was an Ex-Javelin pilot - Ian Cosby DFC I think.................
He told a tale of spinning the Javelin and not recovering - not sure if it was true.
He was West Malling based - were Javelins ever there ??
Arc
He told a tale of spinning the Javelin and not recovering - not sure if it was true.
He was West Malling based - were Javelins ever there ??
Arc
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
When I was in the Air Cadets our Chairman was an Ex-Javelin pilot - Ian Cosby DFC I think................. He told a tale of spinning the Javelin and not recovering - not sure if it was true.
There was then an occasion when the navigator ejected in such a situation and his ejection pushed the nose down and the pilot recovered from the spin. The aircraft notes where then altered to state that in the event of a flat spin the pilot was to order the navigator to eject.....
He also explained how the Nav could reach the control runs and if he was bored and wanted to go home it wasn't unknown to give the odd tug until the pilot reported control problems and recovered. There must have been a lot of fitters doing long night shifts investigating phantom control restrictions so that the Nav could get a pint before the bar shut......
Gentleman Aviator
He told a tale of spinning the Javelin and not recovering
ISTR an ex-Jav Nav who came onto helicopters - one Tom "Paddy" Harrison (RIP) - telling me that the FRCs said something like:
If positive Spin Recovery Action not achieved by 25 000 ft - abandon the aircraft!
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Arclite01 ...
Certainly were ...
85 Squadron 1959 -1960 operating FAW2, FAW6, FAW8, T3 variants.
Pic here ...
RAF West Malling Javelin FAW6 XA815
More Javelin pics on that site if you click the 85 Squadron Link
Also knew a chap (sadly no longer with us) who had experienced a spin ... his only comment ... "It didn't know it's a$$ from its nose ... a bit like me at the time".
He was West Malling based - were Javelins ever there ??
85 Squadron 1959 -1960 operating FAW2, FAW6, FAW8, T3 variants.
Pic here ...
RAF West Malling Javelin FAW6 XA815
More Javelin pics on that site if you click the 85 Squadron Link
Also knew a chap (sadly no longer with us) who had experienced a spin ... his only comment ... "It didn't know it's a$$ from its nose ... a bit like me at the time".
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 3rd Sep 2013 at 15:23.
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Anyone interested in what the Javelin was like to fly and what was liable to go wrong with it could try Javelin from the Cockpit. There is also a full chapter on spinning the Javelin.
Javelin gun bay.
Sorry, nice theory but facts don't support it. The pilot, Flt Lt Pete Gray was standing on the wing when the round cooked off and it broke his ankles. I discussed it with him years later when he was captain of a VC10 bringing me back from Ascension after a session in the Falklands.
