America's Dumbest War Ever
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America's Dumbest War Ever
By Michael Yon: America’s Dumbest War, Ever
Yesterday a concerned father forwarded to me a letter from his son in Afghanistan. I confirmed authenticity, and republish with permission:
Dad,
I am fed up. I cannot believe the lack of attention the recent changes in this war is receiving by the media or the country. I think I saw one thing on CNN about the following subject, but I had to dig extensively to find it. The purpose of this letter is to let you know of the garbage that our soldiers are going through right now. With this knowledge, I hope that you take action by writing your congressmen.
First, because of the recent green on blue incidents or "insider threats" as the new buzz phrase dictates, all coalition forces in Afghanistan have completely stopped partnering with the ANA, AUP, and ALP in order to prevent the death of anymore CF casualties by ANSF or Taliban disguised as them. This is also greatly spurred by President Karzi's indifferent attitude and lack of action to take measures to prevent further insider attacks.
Second, because of this massive change in policy (and complete change in mission) all U.S. forces are forbidden to actively patrol their AO and are to remain on their respective COPs/FOBs. There are only a few exceptions to this rule and they all pertain to "hardening" highway 1 in our AO. We have received orders that clearly state that all CF will no longer be allowed to drop air to ground munitions within the country of Afghanistan. This preempts Karzi's announcement that will be made shortly that states the above mentioned order, making it a tactical directive that he is ordering.
To the first point: Our mission in Afghanistan is to partner with the ANSF on all levels. Now the policy makers are telling us that we are not allowed to do that and further more we are to take immediate measures to secure ourselves from the ANSF that are co-located with us. So the question now becomes, what is our mission? Furthermore, the implication is that we have absolutely no reason to still be in this country if we are not partnering with the ANSF. So why are we here?
To the second point: I don't think that the American citizens would be happy if they knew that their soldiers were being prohibited from defending themselves in any way because of politically driven orders, but that is precisely what is happening in this war right now even as I write this letter. The soldiers of the U.S. never engage the enemy unless we know that we have will always have the tactical advantage in defending ourselves, that advantage is the use of close air support and air weapons team. To take those weapons away from us is to level the playing field for the enemy and thus exposing our soldiers to more danger. In the school house they teach us that the minimum ratio that we are to engage the enemy with, is a 3:1 ratio. In other words, we have the highest probability of winning because we don’t fight fair. The sound tactical principles behind this teaching have saved lives. The very presence of aircraft over our foot patrols has also saved lives and now our chain of command is being told by our political leadership that this is now not allowed. If we are not partnering with the ANSF and we are not actively patrolling to prevent our enemies from massing their attacks on our COP and we can’t drop a bomb on the enemy that we have positively identified, than what the hell are we doing here?
Give us a mission or send us home. I honestly have no preference on what the politicians decide, as long as they just make a decision. Of course this will be a terrible inconvenience on the current elections so I am sure we will be forgotten, which really does not seem to be too different for how things have been going for the last eleven years.
Do not buy into what the some media outlets have already said about this. Casually saying that this is a frequent occurrence is false, and is an attempt to downplay the major ramifications for these decisions. We have never been so restricted in defending ourselves as we have now. This is not just a stand down. The other implication of this decision is that we will perhaps never regain our relationship with the ANA after we have executed these measures to protect ourselves from them. Essentially, we have left them to die as we watch from our high-tech cameras and UAVs. They will not forget this and I fear the relationship will never be the same.
I love you very much Dad and I don’t want you to worry about me any more than you already are, but I also know that this has to be brought up, someone has to say something about this. It is wrong to keep this hidden away while American soldiers are under constant threat of death and dying. I don’t care if you send this letter directly, this needs to be known.
Your son,
[In Afghanistan]
Yesterday a concerned father forwarded to me a letter from his son in Afghanistan. I confirmed authenticity, and republish with permission:
Dad,
I am fed up. I cannot believe the lack of attention the recent changes in this war is receiving by the media or the country. I think I saw one thing on CNN about the following subject, but I had to dig extensively to find it. The purpose of this letter is to let you know of the garbage that our soldiers are going through right now. With this knowledge, I hope that you take action by writing your congressmen.
First, because of the recent green on blue incidents or "insider threats" as the new buzz phrase dictates, all coalition forces in Afghanistan have completely stopped partnering with the ANA, AUP, and ALP in order to prevent the death of anymore CF casualties by ANSF or Taliban disguised as them. This is also greatly spurred by President Karzi's indifferent attitude and lack of action to take measures to prevent further insider attacks.
Second, because of this massive change in policy (and complete change in mission) all U.S. forces are forbidden to actively patrol their AO and are to remain on their respective COPs/FOBs. There are only a few exceptions to this rule and they all pertain to "hardening" highway 1 in our AO. We have received orders that clearly state that all CF will no longer be allowed to drop air to ground munitions within the country of Afghanistan. This preempts Karzi's announcement that will be made shortly that states the above mentioned order, making it a tactical directive that he is ordering.
To the first point: Our mission in Afghanistan is to partner with the ANSF on all levels. Now the policy makers are telling us that we are not allowed to do that and further more we are to take immediate measures to secure ourselves from the ANSF that are co-located with us. So the question now becomes, what is our mission? Furthermore, the implication is that we have absolutely no reason to still be in this country if we are not partnering with the ANSF. So why are we here?
To the second point: I don't think that the American citizens would be happy if they knew that their soldiers were being prohibited from defending themselves in any way because of politically driven orders, but that is precisely what is happening in this war right now even as I write this letter. The soldiers of the U.S. never engage the enemy unless we know that we have will always have the tactical advantage in defending ourselves, that advantage is the use of close air support and air weapons team. To take those weapons away from us is to level the playing field for the enemy and thus exposing our soldiers to more danger. In the school house they teach us that the minimum ratio that we are to engage the enemy with, is a 3:1 ratio. In other words, we have the highest probability of winning because we don’t fight fair. The sound tactical principles behind this teaching have saved lives. The very presence of aircraft over our foot patrols has also saved lives and now our chain of command is being told by our political leadership that this is now not allowed. If we are not partnering with the ANSF and we are not actively patrolling to prevent our enemies from massing their attacks on our COP and we can’t drop a bomb on the enemy that we have positively identified, than what the hell are we doing here?
Give us a mission or send us home. I honestly have no preference on what the politicians decide, as long as they just make a decision. Of course this will be a terrible inconvenience on the current elections so I am sure we will be forgotten, which really does not seem to be too different for how things have been going for the last eleven years.
Do not buy into what the some media outlets have already said about this. Casually saying that this is a frequent occurrence is false, and is an attempt to downplay the major ramifications for these decisions. We have never been so restricted in defending ourselves as we have now. This is not just a stand down. The other implication of this decision is that we will perhaps never regain our relationship with the ANA after we have executed these measures to protect ourselves from them. Essentially, we have left them to die as we watch from our high-tech cameras and UAVs. They will not forget this and I fear the relationship will never be the same.
I love you very much Dad and I don’t want you to worry about me any more than you already are, but I also know that this has to be brought up, someone has to say something about this. It is wrong to keep this hidden away while American soldiers are under constant threat of death and dying. I don’t care if you send this letter directly, this needs to be known.
Your son,
[In Afghanistan]
Last edited by ORAC; 27th Sep 2012 at 12:06.
This, if the information in the letter is true, confirms what I have been saying in the Dempsey thread.....that our Senior Military Leadership have sold the Troops out once again.
We saw it at Fort Hood, we have seen it by Dempsey, we have seen Generals who tried to stand up against bad policies fired...and now this capiitulation to very bad decisions by politicians.
In our system the President is Commander-In-Chief and the Military obeys his Orders but nothing keeps those Seniors from telling the President that it is not an Order he shall carry out....and then Resign immediately telling the President to get himself another General.
If enough do that.....even the thickest President gets the message.
Along with the Lobotomy.....where down the line do they remove our General's Dangly Bits?
A second thought......why is it America's Dumbest War Ever? We are not fighting it by ourselves.
That our Politicians and Military Senior Leadership are failing our Troops and our Country is plain to see. Perhaps, as we saw that happen back in Vietnam and we appear to have ignored those lessons and are doing very much the same thing as then.....but using more hi-tech weapons.....I guess that might qualify it as being the "Dumbest Ever" for us.....but I do believe there is some blame to be shared all around. When shall the Military ever stand up to the Civilians and convince them who needs to be the ones calling the shots in how to wage War?
George Bush in Gulf War One....did it right.....gave the Military the assets they wanted....left them free to execute the War....and let them get on with it without interference.
We cannot say that about Bush Junior and Obama. Bush let it go on too long....and Obama gave up the cause last year when he announced we were leaving at the end of 2014. Remember "Vietnamization" and how well that worked once Congress cut off all the money and resources to the South Vietnamese?
We are now into a War of Attrition with the Taliban.....and we know how that works.....they win....we lose. (Especially if our ROE's keep us from using effective measures to counter their tactics and give the initiative to them.)
We saw it at Fort Hood, we have seen it by Dempsey, we have seen Generals who tried to stand up against bad policies fired...and now this capiitulation to very bad decisions by politicians.
In our system the President is Commander-In-Chief and the Military obeys his Orders but nothing keeps those Seniors from telling the President that it is not an Order he shall carry out....and then Resign immediately telling the President to get himself another General.
If enough do that.....even the thickest President gets the message.
Along with the Lobotomy.....where down the line do they remove our General's Dangly Bits?
A second thought......why is it America's Dumbest War Ever? We are not fighting it by ourselves.
That our Politicians and Military Senior Leadership are failing our Troops and our Country is plain to see. Perhaps, as we saw that happen back in Vietnam and we appear to have ignored those lessons and are doing very much the same thing as then.....but using more hi-tech weapons.....I guess that might qualify it as being the "Dumbest Ever" for us.....but I do believe there is some blame to be shared all around. When shall the Military ever stand up to the Civilians and convince them who needs to be the ones calling the shots in how to wage War?
George Bush in Gulf War One....did it right.....gave the Military the assets they wanted....left them free to execute the War....and let them get on with it without interference.
We cannot say that about Bush Junior and Obama. Bush let it go on too long....and Obama gave up the cause last year when he announced we were leaving at the end of 2014. Remember "Vietnamization" and how well that worked once Congress cut off all the money and resources to the South Vietnamese?
We are now into a War of Attrition with the Taliban.....and we know how that works.....they win....we lose. (Especially if our ROE's keep us from using effective measures to counter their tactics and give the initiative to them.)
Last edited by SASless; 27th Sep 2012 at 15:06.
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The US Congress and the Executive Branch of Government are totally inept and dysfunctional. These people should be held accountable by the media and the public at large for their lack of firm policy decisions and morally bankrupt attitudes of self enrichment and re-election-at-all-cost before the betterment of the nation. Brave soldiers , cowardly , self serving politicians and a disinterested populace can only lead to failure . Shame. Either sell it hard , fight the fight 110 % or get the hell out. Where is the leadership ???? No Hope , No Change. Pity. Both the Democrats and Republicans are totally to blame.
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early retirement, fat pension, cushy civvy street post???? any of these ring a bell?
All war is immoral, sometimes the weak /righteous have to be defended, so yes, i get it that ther are sometimes good reasons for widespread killings,maimings and destruction.
It's unlikely these "leaders" give a flying fxxxk about the cannon-fodder at the 5h11tty end of the stick.....they're expendable!
the top dogs are all for feathering their own nests....anyone who thinks that the country's interest is put first, must be thick/naive/wilfully blind to reality.
All war is immoral, sometimes the weak /righteous have to be defended, so yes, i get it that ther are sometimes good reasons for widespread killings,maimings and destruction.
It's unlikely these "leaders" give a flying fxxxk about the cannon-fodder at the 5h11tty end of the stick.....they're expendable!
the top dogs are all for feathering their own nests....anyone who thinks that the country's interest is put first, must be thick/naive/wilfully blind to reality.
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Vietnam all over again ?
Nothing worse than a Commander in Chief who hasn't served
and seems to surround himself with yes men. Those who did
stand up won some early victories but are now out of the picture.
.
Nothing worse than a Commander in Chief who hasn't served
and seems to surround himself with yes men. Those who did
stand up won some early victories but are now out of the picture.
.
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It gets even dumber if you get into whose war it is, who benefited from it, who stirred it up. We all deferentially swallow their bull**** propaganda, grind their enemies into the sand, yet Hollywood doesn't have the courtesy to script us a respectable exit strategy.
82nd Airborne Division Brigadier General facing Courts Martial for a list of Offenses.
Another failure of leadership.
The Associated Press: US general charged with adultery, other sex crimes
Another failure of leadership.
The Associated Press: US general charged with adultery, other sex crimes
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
PN,
Not necessarily, the term "forcible sodomy" is used when a more specific charge such as rape will be harder to prove. Sodomy in this case is defined as contact between a sex organ and any part of another person’s body. I should probably stop there, unlike the General...
Not necessarily, the term "forcible sodomy" is used when a more specific charge such as rape will be harder to prove. Sodomy in this case is defined as contact between a sex organ and any part of another person’s body. I should probably stop there, unlike the General...
Or this Soldier could man-up, realise that he exists solely to satisfy a Political aim and if he doesn't like that then he should quite. We (or they) don't join up for all the good bits - if the aim is achieved by reducing the amount of shots fired, and the Politicians don't trust the Military to do that by themselves, then restrictive RoE is the result.
Yet again Yon fails to think and simply joins the outrage bus.
Yet again Yon fails to think and simply joins the outrage bus.
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Virginia law definition of "forcible sodomy"
Virginia Forcible Sodomy
section B is a bit of a shocker - it seems to allow raping your wife as long as you don't cause serious injury........
surely thats not the current law?
Virginia Forcible Sodomy
section B is a bit of a shocker - it seems to allow raping your wife as long as you don't cause serious injury........
surely thats not the current law?
The allegations pertain to acts/actions that occurred in Afghanistan. Military Law applies....not State Law. Even if there were acts committed in the USA and off Military or Federal property....the UCMJ would have jurisdiction as the Offender is subject to the UCMJ.
Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) - Sodomy
Article 125—Sodomy
We have fought this "War" for Eleven Years now.....and just over two more Years to go under current plans.
Am I the only one that sees something wrong with that kind of thinking by our Political and Military leadership?
Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) - Sodomy
Article 125—Sodomy
We have fought this "War" for Eleven Years now.....and just over two more Years to go under current plans.
Am I the only one that sees something wrong with that kind of thinking by our Political and Military leadership?
Last edited by SASless; 27th Sep 2012 at 21:08.
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Alfred
"Or this Soldier could man-up, realise that he exists solely to satisfy a Political aim and if he doesn't like that then he should quite. We (or they) don't join up for all the good bits - if the aim is achieved by reducing the amount of shots fired, and the Politicians don't trust the Military to do that by themselves, then restrictive RoE is the result.
Yet again Yon fails to think and simply joins the outrage bus."
Maybe the Politicians should let the military do it's job
without tying one hand behind their back which always
seems to be a guaranteed strategy to fail.
Especially Politicians that haven't served.
And if they don't trust the military, maybe the Politicians
need to go.
Re Yon, what more could he add ?
He at least had done a fair bit more critical thinking on both wars
than some or most fly in, fly out Journo's. Plus he has done some hard
yards as well.
.
"Or this Soldier could man-up, realise that he exists solely to satisfy a Political aim and if he doesn't like that then he should quite. We (or they) don't join up for all the good bits - if the aim is achieved by reducing the amount of shots fired, and the Politicians don't trust the Military to do that by themselves, then restrictive RoE is the result.
Yet again Yon fails to think and simply joins the outrage bus."
Maybe the Politicians should let the military do it's job
without tying one hand behind their back which always
seems to be a guaranteed strategy to fail.
Especially Politicians that haven't served.
And if they don't trust the military, maybe the Politicians
need to go.
Re Yon, what more could he add ?
He at least had done a fair bit more critical thinking on both wars
than some or most fly in, fly out Journo's. Plus he has done some hard
yards as well.
.
Last edited by 500N; 27th Sep 2012 at 21:34.
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Alfred
"Or this Soldier could man-up, realise that he exists solely to satisfy a Political aim and if he doesn't like that then he should quite. We (or they) don't join up for all the good bits - if the aim is achieved by reducing the amount of shots fired, and the Politicians don't trust the Military to do that by themselves, then restrictive RoE is the result.
Have a read of the Book "No Easy Day". A very good few pages in it
about the gradual changes to ROE etc from the sublime to the ridiculous !
"Or this Soldier could man-up, realise that he exists solely to satisfy a Political aim and if he doesn't like that then he should quite. We (or they) don't join up for all the good bits - if the aim is achieved by reducing the amount of shots fired, and the Politicians don't trust the Military to do that by themselves, then restrictive RoE is the result.
Have a read of the Book "No Easy Day". A very good few pages in it
about the gradual changes to ROE etc from the sublime to the ridiculous !
Last edited by 500N; 28th Sep 2012 at 03:31.
A military exists solely to achieve a political aim - it is the typical of certain sections of the military to think that once the aim has been set that politicians should 'just get out of the way' and 'let them at it' and not limit them with RoE that 'ties one hand behind their back'. Courageous restraint was based around the fact that the Afghanistan Population were fairly ******* threaders with Fast Air/Long Range Artillery Strikes being called in on their homes and families to achieve a fairly nebulous result. Stopping killing the locals probably achieves more in the long-run than making people feel better about being able to 'reach out and touch people'.
If this lad doesn't like being shot at, doesn't like being a tool to achieve his nation's aims and doesn't like having unlimited liability he should leave the armed forces.
Lets not forget Yon has a history of hissy fits, especially when he believes that his 'crusade for the truth' is being impinged. The man takes great photos, and does add some value to reportage, however ISAF don't exist to provide him with a story or 24/7 insta-rebuttal of whatever he's decided to make a drum out of this time.
If this lad doesn't like being shot at, doesn't like being a tool to achieve his nation's aims and doesn't like having unlimited liability he should leave the armed forces.
Lets not forget Yon has a history of hissy fits, especially when he believes that his 'crusade for the truth' is being impinged. The man takes great photos, and does add some value to reportage, however ISAF don't exist to provide him with a story or 24/7 insta-rebuttal of whatever he's decided to make a drum out of this time.
No actually I posted it exactly because it shows what we are talking about. It shows no faces.....but it does show the horror of what our Troops are facing each and every day.
War is offensive and the results are far more offensive to those who have to endure it.
Folks here like to treat things as abstractions.....when they are not.
My heart breaks when I read of one more Casualty in Afghanistan....and having been through this myself in Vietnam.....I promised never to let us have another Vietnam without speaking out about it.
Unlike Vietnam....this war is not being shown to the American Public....or the British Public either I bet. We get somber videos of Flag Draped Coffins, shiny black Hearses....crying families but we never see the reality of what caused those coffins and crying families.
The photo is shocking not dis-respectful. I meant it to be.....as it is the real face of the War.....not the made for prime time TV our governments are producing.
I thought hard about posting that photo.....over a couple of days.....so I did not do it out of pure whimsey.
You are welcome to your opinion....perhaps you will agree we need to see the end of these tragic events.....and join me in speaking out against the War. It is time to bring our Troops home.....not in two years time. Not doing so....means more of events just like that in the photo. Which shocks you more....the photo or the thought of two more years of this?
War is offensive and the results are far more offensive to those who have to endure it.
Folks here like to treat things as abstractions.....when they are not.
My heart breaks when I read of one more Casualty in Afghanistan....and having been through this myself in Vietnam.....I promised never to let us have another Vietnam without speaking out about it.
Unlike Vietnam....this war is not being shown to the American Public....or the British Public either I bet. We get somber videos of Flag Draped Coffins, shiny black Hearses....crying families but we never see the reality of what caused those coffins and crying families.
The photo is shocking not dis-respectful. I meant it to be.....as it is the real face of the War.....not the made for prime time TV our governments are producing.
I thought hard about posting that photo.....over a couple of days.....so I did not do it out of pure whimsey.
You are welcome to your opinion....perhaps you will agree we need to see the end of these tragic events.....and join me in speaking out against the War. It is time to bring our Troops home.....not in two years time. Not doing so....means more of events just like that in the photo. Which shocks you more....the photo or the thought of two more years of this?
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Mostly I disagree with SASless on things.
On this, however, I am right with him.
Pictures like this should be mandatory viewing for all those who vote in any country at war.
If you don't like it, then vote for parties that don't get involved in wars.
If you are a citizen of a country at war, then the least you can do is see and accept the reality of it.
On this, however, I am right with him.
Pictures like this should be mandatory viewing for all those who vote in any country at war.
If you don't like it, then vote for parties that don't get involved in wars.
If you are a citizen of a country at war, then the least you can do is see and accept the reality of it.
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Unfortunately, I have to agree with SASless - and so does one Australian Major General - a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan.
General criticises Australia's Afghan 'experiment' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
There is only one way to fight war - "go hard or go home" - as the race/dragster blokes say.
Afghanistan is a cesspit. A swirling cesspit riven by 2000 yr old hatreds, tribal rivalry, and 5th century attitudes. Afghanistan has turned into another Vietnam because no Western politician has the necessary will to win.
For the war to be won in Afghanistan, it would mean decimating a large chunk of Pakistan, too.
It won't happen, and all our blokes there are fighting with both hands tied, not just one.
I'm saddened by the endless losses for virtually no gain. There's no hope of introducing the concept of democracy to these people - their undemocratic, intolerant, 5th century religion is what binds them - and it's what makes them wage continuous war on Western-style democracy - because it undermines their religion and their religious power.
Britain never won any Afghan wars in the 1800's, and God knows they lost some serious numbers of men and fought unbelievable battles.
The Russians never won in Afghanistan, even though they had superior numbers and superior technology.
The will to fight for decades and win, by our politicians, is not there - not now, and not ever. The Afghans and the Taliban have that will though, and they will carry it through for as long as it takes. These people live to wage war.
Pull out ASAP and put the whole useless exercise behind us. We had to do it with 'Nam, and we are going to have to do it again - thanks to politicians who think they can run wars.
Only Generals can run wars, to win - and in the last 60 years, they have rarely been allowed to run wars.
General criticises Australia's Afghan 'experiment' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
There is only one way to fight war - "go hard or go home" - as the race/dragster blokes say.
Afghanistan is a cesspit. A swirling cesspit riven by 2000 yr old hatreds, tribal rivalry, and 5th century attitudes. Afghanistan has turned into another Vietnam because no Western politician has the necessary will to win.
For the war to be won in Afghanistan, it would mean decimating a large chunk of Pakistan, too.
It won't happen, and all our blokes there are fighting with both hands tied, not just one.
I'm saddened by the endless losses for virtually no gain. There's no hope of introducing the concept of democracy to these people - their undemocratic, intolerant, 5th century religion is what binds them - and it's what makes them wage continuous war on Western-style democracy - because it undermines their religion and their religious power.
Britain never won any Afghan wars in the 1800's, and God knows they lost some serious numbers of men and fought unbelievable battles.
The Russians never won in Afghanistan, even though they had superior numbers and superior technology.
The will to fight for decades and win, by our politicians, is not there - not now, and not ever. The Afghans and the Taliban have that will though, and they will carry it through for as long as it takes. These people live to wage war.
Pull out ASAP and put the whole useless exercise behind us. We had to do it with 'Nam, and we are going to have to do it again - thanks to politicians who think they can run wars.
Only Generals can run wars, to win - and in the last 60 years, they have rarely been allowed to run wars.