Landing
Landing on teh thrshold
Otrex mentioned that civilian aircraft must cross the threshold at 50'. Whilst this is wise it is not regulation.
EU OPs 1.410 states:
Operating procedures —Threshold crossing height
An operator must establish operational procedures designed to ensure that an aeroplane being used to conduct precision
approaches crosses the threshold by a safe margin, with the aeroplane in the landing configuration and attitude.
For EU OPs performance B aircraft EU OPs also states that this does not apply for VFR operations.
The 50' crossing height comes from most certification data, however I have flown some where the landing performance was certified to 40', 45' or 55' threshold crossing height. The sensible approach is to stick to your aircraft AFM certified data and your company OPs Manual procedures.
I recently touched down on the piano keys in a small aircraft VFR and the examiner next to me was decidely uncomfortable! It was the whole debrief as he wanted me to land half way down the runway. We shall agree to disagree.
I believe that one of the biggest causes of overruns, heavy braking etc is because pilots come over the threshold too high and too fast. Approach speed of Vref +10 is for the approach. You should come over the thrhshold at Vref at the correct height. there is a good recent FAA circular on overrunns and how much extra runway is required when you are high and fast.
MM
EU OPs 1.410 states:
Operating procedures —Threshold crossing height
An operator must establish operational procedures designed to ensure that an aeroplane being used to conduct precision
approaches crosses the threshold by a safe margin, with the aeroplane in the landing configuration and attitude.
For EU OPs performance B aircraft EU OPs also states that this does not apply for VFR operations.
The 50' crossing height comes from most certification data, however I have flown some where the landing performance was certified to 40', 45' or 55' threshold crossing height. The sensible approach is to stick to your aircraft AFM certified data and your company OPs Manual procedures.
I recently touched down on the piano keys in a small aircraft VFR and the examiner next to me was decidely uncomfortable! It was the whole debrief as he wanted me to land half way down the runway. We shall agree to disagree.
I believe that one of the biggest causes of overruns, heavy braking etc is because pilots come over the threshold too high and too fast. Approach speed of Vref +10 is for the approach. You should come over the thrhshold at Vref at the correct height. there is a good recent FAA circular on overrunns and how much extra runway is required when you are high and fast.
MM
Last edited by Miles Magister; 27th Sep 2012 at 08:59.
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he wanted me to land half way down the runway.
I was taught 'point and power' approaches to the numbers and PFLs to use an aiming point a third of the way down (Bulldog and Tucano).
Try landing on the numbers in a heavy jet and you can expect to leave most of your landing gear a good distance behind you.
Just about sums it up perfectly....For the OP
FWIW many/most of the civilian operators routinely down load information off the flight data recorders and run the all the data through some fancy scanning program that looks for, shall I say "interesting numbers and events..
". So in many airlines if you "duck" under the glideslope to land on the numbers, or "float" trying to get a greaser or avoid a long roll out you can expect a one sided phone call from the office or, if you make a habit of it, an interview without the tea and biscuits and perhaps some extra time in the simulator..............that's best avoided by landing in the Touchdown Zone.
Last edited by wiggy; 27th Sep 2012 at 10:12.
Anyone that doesn't land on the piano keys, or at least the numbers, is a girl. This is all about pilots making excuses for not being able to judge where their main wheels are relative to the cockpit/flight deck.
I agree with orgASMic. Three most useless things to a pilot:
The runway behind you
Yesterday's weather forecast
The fuel you've already burnt.
I agree with orgASMic. Three most useless things to a pilot:
The runway behind you
Yesterday's weather forecast
The fuel you've already burnt.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Anyone that doesn't land on the piano keys, or at least the numbers, is a girl.
Avoid imitations
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I often land with the parking brakes on.
I suspect Courtney is engaging in robust banter Herod, he certainly used to
At the end of the day it's different jobs, different SOPS.. Military Instructors used to teach aim for the numbers, but as you well know aiming to do that, and succeeding in civvy street, especially on a heavy, is career limiting.
At the end of the day it's different jobs, different SOPS.. Military Instructors used to teach aim for the numbers, but as you well know aiming to do that, and succeeding in civvy street, especially on a heavy, is career limiting.
Last edited by wiggy; 28th Sep 2012 at 21:05.
Re lack of reverse thrust on military aircraft - a lot of types had one of these instead:
http://www.wingweb.co.uk/wingweb/img...r_arp_1961.jpg
The chute was streamed as a matter of course on Victors, and indeed there were fairly stringent conditions before you landed without streaming: headwind component, dry runway, minimum landing run etc. They were a bugger to repack, so away from base where the crew would have to pack and re-install the chute themselves there was a temptation not to stream. Could all go wrong though, like when my captain burnt out the brakes on 16 wheels after an injudicious decision not to stream on a landaway!
http://www.wingweb.co.uk/wingweb/img...r_arp_1961.jpg
The chute was streamed as a matter of course on Victors, and indeed there were fairly stringent conditions before you landed without streaming: headwind component, dry runway, minimum landing run etc. They were a bugger to repack, so away from base where the crew would have to pack and re-install the chute themselves there was a temptation not to stream. Could all go wrong though, like when my captain burnt out the brakes on 16 wheels after an injudicious decision not to stream on a landaway!
I often land with the parking brakes on.
Sometimes I start to take off with chocks around the wheels.
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Oh You british!
Piano keys...oh so funny. I have a feeling you guys dont' even know where that form of marking came from.
but if you ever get curious, try to see the last 10 minutes of a film called: "Julie" with Doris Day. You might get a clue.
but if you ever get curious, try to see the last 10 minutes of a film called: "Julie" with Doris Day. You might get a clue.
That wasn't at St. Mawgan by any chance?
The fixed distance marker is usually associated with the ILS glidepath transmitter and is about 300m from the beginning of the runway. It assumes a screen height of 50 feet across the beginning of the runway
excepting the case of displaced thresholds where it can be used at about the 300m mark from the start of LDA. (if you don't have Perf A - thats Landing Distance Available)
At the old Kai Tak rw13 it could sometimes be an interview without coffee
by the HKCAA if you ignored the displaced threshold but it could be argued it was better to be interviewed than seeing if your 747 floats at the other end..
excepting the case of displaced thresholds where it can be used at about the 300m mark from the start of LDA. (if you don't have Perf A - thats Landing Distance Available)
At the old Kai Tak rw13 it could sometimes be an interview without coffee
by the HKCAA if you ignored the displaced threshold but it could be argued it was better to be interviewed than seeing if your 747 floats at the other end..
Anyone that doesn't land on the piano keys, or at least the numbers, is a girl.
He later remarked that it was "The only time she ever got it on the numbers"...
