Nimrod service entry, MOTU or MOCU?
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Nimrod service entry, MOTU or MOCU?
General histories of the Nimrod infer that it entered RAF service with MOTU at St Mawgan on 2 October '69, then mainly occupied with Shackleton training. 236 OCU was reformed on June 30 1970 out of MOTU, with the prolification of the Nimrod in service.
However I have seen reference to MOCU (Maritime Operational Conversion Unit) and that the Nimrod enetered service with that unit before it became 236 OCU.
Can anyone here confirm either way or add information?
Thanks in advance, HH
However I have seen reference to MOCU (Maritime Operational Conversion Unit) and that the Nimrod enetered service with that unit before it became 236 OCU.
Can anyone here confirm either way or add information?
Thanks in advance, HH
I was on one of the last MOTU courses finishing in Dec 1969, and the course was configured primarily for people new to Coastal/18 Gp operations, with a limited refresher side. Of note for the front end that was over 180 hrs flying. The MOCU (IIRC) started about the same time to convert current Shack crews to the Nimrod, whilst the OCU replaced MOTU for the full maritime conversion.
I started Shack to Nimrod conversion in Sept 70. This was on a short course for current maritime crews. ( No. 7 Course - first 2 crews of 206 Sqn.) It was by then 236 OCU.
Last edited by oxenos; 24th Sep 2012 at 18:08.
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Shackman/Oxenos,
Must have been a pretty awesome time around then? Cold war in full swing...revolutionary jet...overseas sales trips. I'm pretty jealous I missed it
(joined in 76)
Must have been a pretty awesome time around then? Cold war in full swing...revolutionary jet...overseas sales trips. I'm pretty jealous I missed it
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Must have been a pretty awesome time around then? Cold war in full
swing...revolutionary jet...overseas sales trips. I'm pretty jealous I missed it
(joined in 76)
201 sqn
I arrived on 201 Squadron in January 1973. At that time they had had the Nimrod for a couple of years. They were very good days. Hardly a week went by without some sort of contact with the Soviets. Had some excellent trips up into the north Norwegian Sea where all sorts of red hardware on display. The first time I went to the Med we were briefed that there were over 100 warships at sea, both blue and red. It was like stepping stones between ships. It may have been the Cold War but the world was a safer place then. And of course we had the Cod War!! Still no medal for that. 
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Many thanks for the information so far, seems perfect sense to have had a unit dedicated to bringing in the new type and its capabilities.
Any more tangible info about MOCU would be very welcome.
Another Nimrod grey area for me concerns the move of 236 OCU to Kinloss before returning to St Mawgan, and a temporary Nimrod MR.2 Conversion Unit set up late 1970s, early 1980s.
Any more tangible info about MOCU would be very welcome.
Another Nimrod grey area for me concerns the move of 236 OCU to Kinloss before returning to St Mawgan, and a temporary Nimrod MR.2 Conversion Unit set up late 1970s, early 1980s.
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Another Nimrod grey area for me concerns the move of 236 OCU to Kinloss before returning to St Mawgan, and a temporary Nimrod MR.2 Conversion Unit set up late 1970s, early 1980s.
236 OCU was based at RAF St Mawgan until the Nimrod part of the base closed circa 1992? It then moved to RAF Kinloss until it closed on cessation of our long range maritime patrol capability a year or so ago (Cameron take note....you ****)
The Nimrod Conversion Flight (NCF) was based at RAF Kinloss from about 1980 onwards and converted operational Nimrod MR1 crews to the MR2 on a 10 week course. Not quite sure when it ceased operating and when 236 OCU started producing MR2 crews, but I was on the first ever Nimrod MR2 Refresher Course in 1985 along with the incoming Stn Cdrs of both KS & SM.
The course - of course - had to have a GIBEX, so we duly pitched up for our brief, with a well known 1 star (AKA The Silver Fox) coming along for the ride.
As we crowded into the SM briefing room a harrased Ops Officer tried to chuck us out as OC Ops wanted it for a briefing, leading to the AEO screens immortal quote:
"I'll see your Wg Cdr and raise you 2 Gp Capts and an Air Commodore".
Once again...happy days.
PS Well I feel old
Last edited by The Old Fat One; 25th Sep 2012 at 18:27.
The Nimrod training machine
While 236 OCU was still doing Mk1 training at St Mawgan a small unit was set up at Kinloss to oversee the conversion from Mk1 to Mk2 this was the Nimrod conversion Flight (NCF). The conversion course was 12 weeks.
A subset of the NCF was another small team doing the course design for the long Mk2 OCU course.
At the back end of '82 the first Mk2 long course started in the old 120 sheds on the north side of the field and graduated around April of '83.
Somewhere between '83 and Aug '86 the long course moved back down to St Mawgan.
Round about the back end of '91 it was mooted that the Nimrod OCU moved back up to Kinloss. But GW2 held that back a bit and it finally moved in Sep of '92.
Having set up house in the even older sheds around the old parade square it was transmorgrified into the Nimrod OCU, aka NOCU. Still with me?
With its new name it then moved into the purpose built premises down near the Electronics centre.
Later again it joined the rest of the OCUs in the RAF and became an "R" squadron, No 42 (R) squadron. It kept this final title until the whole shebang was dissolved in '11/'12.
So, finally, I don't think it was EVER the MOCU.
The Ancient Mariner
PS some of the dates are approx but close enough for Gummint work and it does show the sequence.
A subset of the NCF was another small team doing the course design for the long Mk2 OCU course.
At the back end of '82 the first Mk2 long course started in the old 120 sheds on the north side of the field and graduated around April of '83.
Somewhere between '83 and Aug '86 the long course moved back down to St Mawgan.
Round about the back end of '91 it was mooted that the Nimrod OCU moved back up to Kinloss. But GW2 held that back a bit and it finally moved in Sep of '92.
Having set up house in the even older sheds around the old parade square it was transmorgrified into the Nimrod OCU, aka NOCU. Still with me?
With its new name it then moved into the purpose built premises down near the Electronics centre.
Later again it joined the rest of the OCUs in the RAF and became an "R" squadron, No 42 (R) squadron. It kept this final title until the whole shebang was dissolved in '11/'12.
So, finally, I don't think it was EVER the MOCU.
The Ancient Mariner
PS some of the dates are approx but close enough for Gummint work and it does show the sequence.
Another Nimrod grey area for me concerns the move of 236 OCU to Kinloss before returning to St Mawgan, and a temporary Nimrod MR.2 Conversion Unit set up late 1970s, early 1980s.
What was the point of the move with all its upheaval? I was never sure.
YS
Last edited by Yellow Sun; 25th Sep 2012 at 18:52.
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Ok here's another version.
On 2 Oct 1969 the first Nimrod MR1 (XV230) was delivered to the Maritime Operational Training Unit (MOTU) at St Mawgan in order to train Nimrod crews.
On 1 July 1970, 236 Operational Conversion Unit (OCU) was reformed by renaming the Maritime Operational Training Unit (MOTU).
On the introduction of Nimrod MR2 the OCU closed at St Mawgan on 1 April 1982 but reformed at Kinloss as the MR2 OCU, joining the Nimrod Conversion Flight which had been operating at KInloss since October 1979.
1 November 1983 saw a return of the OCU to St Mawgan.
The start of the return to Kinloss took place on 31 Jul 1992 prior to the cessation of Nimrod flying operations at St Mawgan.
With the disbandment on No 42 Squadron on 1 October 1992, 236 OCU was renamed Nimrod Operational Conversion Unit (OCU), No 42 (Reserve) Squadron.
During 1997 the Nimrod OCU, No 42 [R] Squadron was renamed to just No 42 (Reserve) Squadron.
From the 1 Jul 1970 to 30 Sep 1992, 236 OCU had the Shadow/Reserve Squadron designation of No 38 (R) Squadron.
Other OCU info:
In 1975 the OCU was awarded the Wilkinson Battle of Britain Memorial Sword for Tactics for its valuable contribution towards the development of operational tactics.
The OCU won the Aird Whyte Trophy in 1984, 1986 and 1989 and as 42(R) in 1993, 2000, 2002 and 2008.
On 2 Oct 1969 the first Nimrod MR1 (XV230) was delivered to the Maritime Operational Training Unit (MOTU) at St Mawgan in order to train Nimrod crews.
On 1 July 1970, 236 Operational Conversion Unit (OCU) was reformed by renaming the Maritime Operational Training Unit (MOTU).
On the introduction of Nimrod MR2 the OCU closed at St Mawgan on 1 April 1982 but reformed at Kinloss as the MR2 OCU, joining the Nimrod Conversion Flight which had been operating at KInloss since October 1979.
1 November 1983 saw a return of the OCU to St Mawgan.
The start of the return to Kinloss took place on 31 Jul 1992 prior to the cessation of Nimrod flying operations at St Mawgan.
With the disbandment on No 42 Squadron on 1 October 1992, 236 OCU was renamed Nimrod Operational Conversion Unit (OCU), No 42 (Reserve) Squadron.
During 1997 the Nimrod OCU, No 42 [R] Squadron was renamed to just No 42 (Reserve) Squadron.
From the 1 Jul 1970 to 30 Sep 1992, 236 OCU had the Shadow/Reserve Squadron designation of No 38 (R) Squadron.
Other OCU info:
In 1975 the OCU was awarded the Wilkinson Battle of Britain Memorial Sword for Tactics for its valuable contribution towards the development of operational tactics.
The OCU won the Aird Whyte Trophy in 1984, 1986 and 1989 and as 42(R) in 1993, 2000, 2002 and 2008.
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Thanks for the correction guys...I forgot the wee 18 month swally to Kinloss...see, I am old.
Didn't the move back to SM in 83' get celebrated with some sort of epic bike ride, all planned around a mid-stop at Bredders?
I have no idea either (maybe something to do with the Falklands??) but it did prompt what in hindsight was the possibly the worst statement in kipper fleet history. Made circa 1997 by the Stn Cdr of KS and it goes something like this...
"I can guarantee you one thing...on my watch, the introduction of Nimrod 2000 will not be a screw up like the introduction of the MR2 was."
Whata mistaka to maka
Didn't the move back to SM in 83' get celebrated with some sort of epic bike ride, all planned around a mid-stop at Bredders?
What was the point of the move with all its upheaval? I was never sure.
"I can guarantee you one thing...on my watch, the introduction of Nimrod 2000 will not be a screw up like the introduction of the MR2 was."
Whata mistaka to maka
Last edited by The Old Fat One; 26th Sep 2012 at 07:23.
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Glad it wasn't my memory playing up about the short term OCU move!
Thanks again for all the info, very useful.
Nimman, your post looks like a 'cut & paste' of usual published Nimrod history, I really need to clarify if there was such a thing as MOCU, or another seperate unit to MOTU to which the Nimrod joined servive.
Shackmans first post sort of backs up its existence and makes sense, although Rossian says there wasn't such a thing. Maybe there were Nimrod element courses within MOTU?
I'm quite eager to pin this down, but getting nowhere, even with briefest TNA & AHB searches.
I guess I really need to find someone who attended the first Nimrod course!
Thanks again for all the info, very useful.
Nimman, your post looks like a 'cut & paste' of usual published Nimrod history, I really need to clarify if there was such a thing as MOCU, or another seperate unit to MOTU to which the Nimrod joined servive.
Shackmans first post sort of backs up its existence and makes sense, although Rossian says there wasn't such a thing. Maybe there were Nimrod element courses within MOTU?
I'm quite eager to pin this down, but getting nowhere, even with briefest TNA & AHB searches.
I guess I really need to find someone who attended the first Nimrod course!
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236 move to kinloss
I believe the reason for the move from St Mawgan to Kinloss in 82 was the assumed availability of a Mk2 simulator for the long course. Needless to say Marconi were years behind with delivery of a working sim!! If I remember correctly the sim was eventually declared suitable for use just as 236 relocated south to St Mawgan!
Festina Lente,
That was indeed part of the justification, but when it became clear that the simulator wasn't going to be available on schedule there was an obstinate refusal to re-evaluate the plan. There were other options available that would not have necessitated the move north and then south but these were "politically" unpalatable.
The irony of it was that the initial courses at Kinloss had to go to Woodford for cubicle\rig training because no simulator or cubicles were available. Then to cap it all when the OCU moved back to St Mawgan we had to charter a Brymon Dash7 to move the first course to Kinloss for simulator training.
I also never understood why it was considered necessary to set up NCF when the Group already had a training unit.
YS
I believe the reason for the move from St Mawgan to Kinloss in 82 was the assumed availability of a Mk2 simulator
The irony of it was that the initial courses at Kinloss had to go to Woodford for cubicle\rig training because no simulator or cubicles were available. Then to cap it all when the OCU moved back to St Mawgan we had to charter a Brymon Dash7 to move the first course to Kinloss for simulator training.
I also never understood why it was considered necessary to set up NCF when the Group already had a training unit.
YS
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Heave Ho
No 1 Nimrod Course started at the MOTU in Jan 1970 (201 Sqn crew), presumably the MOTU crews who were flying the aircraft had received their conversion courses at Woodford. In my research of Sqn records I have not seen mention of a MOCU with regard to Nimrod training. I have the course lists if you really want to know who was on the early Nimrod courses.
No 1 Nimrod Course started at the MOTU in Jan 1970 (201 Sqn crew), presumably the MOTU crews who were flying the aircraft had received their conversion courses at Woodford. In my research of Sqn records I have not seen mention of a MOCU with regard to Nimrod training. I have the course lists if you really want to know who was on the early Nimrod courses.
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Ah the memories flood back....
NCF...Woodford factory. Did you hear about the dry man that stopped the factory by hitting the big red kill switch for a bet...that would be me
The Marconi factory at Dalgety Bay, sent down for a week to stay at Turnhouse and punch buttons for the test team. Five endless days of coffee and the local pub. Achieved....the square root of absolutely **** all. Not one single successful switch selection in five days. And Turnhouse was 'kin freezing
NCF...Woodford factory. Did you hear about the dry man that stopped the factory by hitting the big red kill switch for a bet...that would be me
The Marconi factory at Dalgety Bay, sent down for a week to stay at Turnhouse and punch buttons for the test team. Five endless days of coffee and the local pub. Achieved....the square root of absolutely **** all. Not one single successful switch selection in five days. And Turnhouse was 'kin freezing
Last edited by The Old Fat One; 27th Sep 2012 at 09:01.
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NCF
The Mk 2 Nimrod Conversion Flight course was 11 weeks long. 6 weeks ground school, then fly a Mk 1 to BAe Woodford and take up residence at RAF Bredbury Hall (Bredbury Hall Hotel, Stockport – Hotel & Conference Centre, Restaurant, Weddings) one week in the sim, and then fly a Mk 2 back to Kinloss for the 6 weeks flying phase. The crew then took the aircraft back to the squadron and it all started again. It was a NCF flight that was the first Nimrod loss, flight 13 in the flying syllabus. An engine was lost after V1 on takeoff and then a massive bird strike just after airborne, coming down in the woods, killing both pilots - Noel Anthony and Steve Boucher. I joined NCF a few months after this to complete the St Mawgan 42 Squadron conversion before I went to Finningley as an instructor there.
236 OCU
I was a student AEOp on the first "long" Nimrod Mk1 course, at St Mawgan, and my log book (first flight Jan 4 1970) shows the Unit as 236 OCU. Maybe the short courses were done by a MOCU, as they changed over to the Nimrod. Didn't MOTU have a war role as 220 Sqn?
