Any Phantom stories out there?
I can remember sitting in a very bad tempered 3 way meeting between HSA, Rolls Royce and MoD back in the 1970s or 80s. The issue was a Phantom pherry, if I remember rightly from Cyprus. Somewhere en route one of the Phantoms had an engine problem, either low oil pressure or vibration and the pilot throttled the engine back to idle. The pilot decided to continue the ferry but could not maintain station with the tanker with one engine at idle and one at Mil power. He therefore flew for around 2 hours with the good engine in reheat before landing safely back in the UK. The limitation in the books was that no more than 12 minutes in any hour could be spend at Mil power or above. Rolls Royce argued that this meant the limit had been grossly exceeded but the rest of us believed that provided the average over the life of the engine did not exceed 12 minutes in any hour it was OK. The argument raged for hours and I dont think it was ever resolved, but I dont think any harm came to the engine either. Whether the pilot got severely reprimanded as Rolls Royce requested seems unlikely.
I think that this ferry was to Cyprus (probably from Gan), and that the excessive time in reheat resulted in the pilot (from 41 Sqn I think) being court martialed at Coningsby. I believe that on day 1 of the proceedings the defence lawyer asked to see the 'damaged' engine only to be told it was still installed on an aircraft. This resulted in the charge being thrown out - perhaps someone else can remember more details?
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oops, under scrutiny !
I don't know anything about how much fuel a VC10 carries, I can just tell you that outbound the 3 tankers left Brize 'some time' before we left Wildenrath; my recollection is that they flew together until some distance west of Scotland, then 2 of the tankers both topped up from the 3rd. A short while later we caught up with the 2 topped up tankers and did the rest of the trip as 2 formations of 1xVC10 with 2x F4s. I assume this was needed because 1 tanker per pair of F4s wasn't enough to get to Goose and still give us the single-engine div to Narsasuaq (spelling?); as I say I know nothing about VC10 capacity; I can only tell you our profile.
In fairness I can't clearly remember if the 3rd tanker came all the way with us to Tyndall, so it's possible that the return from Goose was with 2 tankers since the SE PNR was probably easier on he way back towards Europe. (were we possibly the 1st transatlantic RAF F4 detachment ? Copper Flag)
Not being a prollific poster here on PP I can understand some scepticism; I take it with good humour as I'm amongst colleagues and probably some mates I flew with during the 80's.
btw, the Rhino reference is because I've been recently looking at Caruso's caricatures; nothing more sinister than that !
In fairness I can't clearly remember if the 3rd tanker came all the way with us to Tyndall, so it's possible that the return from Goose was with 2 tankers since the SE PNR was probably easier on he way back towards Europe. (were we possibly the 1st transatlantic RAF F4 detachment ? Copper Flag)
Not being a prollific poster here on PP I can understand some scepticism; I take it with good humour as I'm amongst colleagues and probably some mates I flew with during the 80's.
btw, the Rhino reference is because I've been recently looking at Caruso's caricatures; nothing more sinister than that !
Don't worry. I think there's a bit of scepticism lurking after a couple of noteable walt incidents. The last resulted in the closure and resurrection of a great Phantom site - may the new one phly even better than the last.
Upside Down - what year was this EX COPPER FLAG trail?
This week 24 years ago - a pair of Wildenrath F-4s at Goose just before we took them to Lincoln, Nebraska on their way to EX RED FLAG....
This week 24 years ago - a pair of Wildenrath F-4s at Goose just before we took them to Lincoln, Nebraska on their way to EX RED FLAG....
Last edited by BEagle; 1st Oct 2012 at 20:50.
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I make no comment on the veracity of anything, as I'm not and never have been in the RAF. A quick Google ("RAF exercise Copper Flag Phantoms" were the keywords) brings this up from Hansard:
Copper Flag Exercises
HC Deb 22 January 1988 vol 125 c902W 902W
Copper Flag Exercises
HC Deb 22 January 1988 vol 125 c902W 902W
Dr. Thomas To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will list Royal Air Force participation in Copper Flag exercises in the United States since 1977, giving the number and type of aircraft involved and dates of the exercise on each occasion.
§ Mr. Freeman The Royal Air Force has participated once in a Copper Flag exercise, which took place from 14 to 25 July 1986. Eight Phantom aircraft were involved.
Hope this helps.
LTL
Hope this helps.
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Copper Flag was (is?) a predominantly EW oriented exercise held in the Gulf just off Florida pan handle. The Google search info looks correct and saves me a trip upstairs to dig out my logbook (thanks for the check 
Think we were there a couple of weeks; memorable was the Air National Guard from New Orleans who heard about our visit, flew their own DC-7 (I think) down to Tyndall, flew us to N'orleans and hosted us magnificently for the weekend, including a table with more shrimps on it than there are in the North Sea.
I think there were some F4 trips to Some other flags a couple of years later, not sure we ever supported Copper Flag again except for this time.
Think we were there a couple of weeks; memorable was the Air National Guard from New Orleans who heard about our visit, flew their own DC-7 (I think) down to Tyndall, flew us to N'orleans and hosted us magnificently for the weekend, including a table with more shrimps on it than there are in the North Sea.
I think there were some F4 trips to Some other flags a couple of years later, not sure we ever supported Copper Flag again except for this time.
Last edited by Upside Down; 2nd Oct 2012 at 19:30. Reason: spelling
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So any story for this image (in another PPrune forum)
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...reat-shot.html
ttfn
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...reat-shot.html
ttfn
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I recall the pilot's name, which I will not mention, and the possible presence as the defending "person" of Mr Gilbert Blades The prosecution made some big issue about the wisdom or otherwise of flying around on one engine. The pilot was asked by Mr Blades about his previous flying experience and was told that it was 1000 hrs on Hunters. Mr Blades asked how many engines the Hunter had. On being told it was one he suggested that there was no case to answer! I do not know if that was the clincher but there was a not guilty verdict.
Last edited by A2QFI; 3rd Oct 2012 at 12:48.
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F4 ELINT
A story that got back to the dungeons at Brough was about an F4 pilot on the Decci range spotting a new Russian warship he'd been briefed about passing through the area. He thought he'd get the Russian to turn on his radars so he could be the first to bring back some ELINT on the new type so proceeds to buzz around the ship at low level.
Nothing..
Right .. goes down very low and streaks through between masts and funnels and starts to circle round.
Aha! Radar sweeps in search mode came in then the more rapid tones of a lock on and then there's a flash and smoke amidships.
Kerrist! Exits at high speed and wave top height.
Turns out the Russian had fired off a flare.
I got this nth hand but I hope it's true.
Nothing..
Right .. goes down very low and streaks through between masts and funnels and starts to circle round.
Aha! Radar sweeps in search mode came in then the more rapid tones of a lock on and then there's a flash and smoke amidships.
Kerrist! Exits at high speed and wave top height.
Turns out the Russian had fired off a flare.
I got this nth hand but I hope it's true.
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A story that got back to the dungeons at Brough was about an F4 pilot on the Decci range spotting a new Russian warship he'd been briefed about passing through the area. He thought he'd get the Russian to turn on his radars so he could be the first to bring back some ELINT on the new type so proceeds to buzz around the ship at low level.
Nothing..
Right .. goes down very low and streaks through between masts and funnels and starts to circle round.
Aha! Radar sweeps in search mode came in then the more rapid tones of a lock on and then there's a flash and smoke amidships.
Kerrist! Exits at high speed and wave top height.
Turns out the Russian had fired off a flare.
I got this nth hand but I hope it's true.
Nothing..
Right .. goes down very low and streaks through between masts and funnels and starts to circle round.
Aha! Radar sweeps in search mode came in then the more rapid tones of a lock on and then there's a flash and smoke amidships.
Kerrist! Exits at high speed and wave top height.
Turns out the Russian had fired off a flare.
I got this nth hand but I hope it's true.
It's true but it was in Akronelli and the motives were not quite as devious. I was that man. My pilot will remain nameless!
Last edited by Geehovah; 4th Oct 2012 at 06:48.
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Then you have one more book sale sir! And £20 for H4H if you would sign it.
Always interested in the end-user stories.
Always interested in the end-user stories.
Last edited by Plastic Bonsai; 4th Oct 2012 at 20:34.
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As a phormer Runway Controller Ex Wattisham Doing APC's in Akrotiri's Caravan with 56 Sqn, 74 Sqn and 43 Sqn I will be up for a copy!
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"Phantom In Focus - A Navigator's Eye on Britains Cold War Warrior" by Fonthill Media.
I'll be donating from my royalties to 2 RAF charities; The RAF Memorial Trust and The RAF Museum so be kind with the reviews.
I'll be donating from my royalties to 2 RAF charities; The RAF Memorial Trust and The RAF Museum so be kind with the reviews.
Last edited by Geehovah; 5th Oct 2012 at 06:20.
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Keep 'em coming
I've had a great time reading these dits and recognising one or two individuals. Sadly I never served on an F-4 station but shared a det once or twice and met up with some of my old IOT comrades. I do remember the very last (I think) flight of an RAF F-4......I was standing outside the Ops Block at that secret West (very West) Wales FT station with D*&k F#%$*s (Ex F-4s and possessing a very unfortunate phonetic surname) when the AAEE FG.1 did its last tour of Britain flight, which took in an opportunity to perform a flyby at the stations latest flying graduation ceremony.
Happy days though how I survived my regular trips with a certain Drop Tank Destroyer from Leuchars, I will never know.
Put me down for a copy of that book too.
Happy days though how I survived my regular trips with a certain Drop Tank Destroyer from Leuchars, I will never know
.Put me down for a copy of that book too.