Any Phantom stories out there?
Nice picture, BEags. And in colour too. Not like proper Q photos of the time. The Victor fighter at post 159 didn't try to bring back snaps or door numbers, I'm pleased to say.
Courtney
Courtney
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 91
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Q Story involving huge dimness
CAVOK sat along side a Bear F - think it was my 2nd I was doing my best David Bailey taking pictures whilst flying left hand when to my surprise the Bear Bomb Doors opened. I said to my back seater - quick get a shot inside the Intel boys will love us- I banked a bit and closed up right underneath MR Bear- I must have been about 6 feet away to get that really close look- I then almost soiled myself as Ivan decided now was the time to drop Sona Bouys. How they didn't hit us I don't know- never did know if they knew where we were and probably all pissed themeselves all the way back to Katanga
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
SF, bet that learnt you to learn all the rules.
We probably knew but didn't think to apply the interception rules - interceptor on port. On the Mighty Hunter the SOP was for the camera op in the port beam so we duly arrived on the starboard side of the May. After one lot of shots we moved out, changed camera lenses, and moved back in.
Boris presumably knew we had moved out and possibly assumed we would move to his port. He rolled starboard hard in to us. Fortunately he pushed and we pulled. As we were at 400 feet it was lucky we each chose a different escape pass. The loadie in the port beam just kept clicking away.
We probably knew but didn't think to apply the interception rules - interceptor on port. On the Mighty Hunter the SOP was for the camera op in the port beam so we duly arrived on the starboard side of the May. After one lot of shots we moved out, changed camera lenses, and moved back in.
Boris presumably knew we had moved out and possibly assumed we would move to his port. He rolled starboard hard in to us. Fortunately he pushed and we pulled. As we were at 400 feet it was lucky we each chose a different escape pass. The loadie in the port beam just kept clicking away.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
I then almost soiled myself as Ivan decided now was the time to drop Sona Bouys. How they didn't hit us
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Starring at an Airfield Near you
Posts: 371
Received 15 Likes
on
7 Posts
Late to this thread, dunno why, but have to pitch in on posts #120 and #128….
#120; do you REALLY think that the Tower Controller would have been making those calls to the distressed Phantomoff his own bat? I suspect that you’ll find that the old adage of ‘shoot the messenger’ is entirely appropriate here!!!
First, there would have been a DOF in the Tower – if not there already, then within nanoseconds of any ‘situation’ developing – and he would have been joined in microseconds by (not necessarily in order): the Flt Cdr, Sqn Cdr, OC Ops Wg, Staish, Padre, NAAFI Manager and dog, not to mention J Eng O, S Eng O, any other Eng O and any poor bl00dy erk who had worked on the jet in the last 3½ months!
Secondly, after testing the bearing strength of the floor in the VCR, each of the above worthies would immediately be issuing long, convoluted and usually contradictory orders/comments/advice/idiocy in steadily raising volumes while standing in front of the benighted ATCO blocking his view of the OTHER things that tend be happening at the same time (Crash Vehicles deploying, Police vehicles entering the runways unannounced, “Medic” getting lost on the Apron, etc) and that have to be monitored/supervised.
Finally, all of our Heroes would immediately assume the role of fully trained, endorsed, checked, standardised and examined ATCOs…….right up until the moment they were invited to Take Over Watch in the logbook!
#128; Wiggy, I WAS the Tower controller on that occasion! One of the funniest Phantom related incidents that I ever was involved in. Funny because the Phantom's C130 tanker wasn’t the only thing going Pete Tongue: at the same time there was the Chinook with the stuck transmit switch trying to get into ‘Replen’ and regaling the world on his views on life in the FIs in general and ATC units who wouldn’t answer his calls in particular. (Never thought to look at the cab for the green light that a) would have given him permission to cross the RW and land-on at Replen and b) given him the hint that all might not be well with the world RT-wise.) Allied to HM’s warship ECM operator who decided to listen-in to the excitement on the Twr frequency but had patently set his gear to broadcast barrage noise (DF literally pointed to the Grey Funnel Line boat in the outer harbour!) on whatever frequency he was monitoring, communication capacity was – at best - limited. As we played ‘chase me around the frequencies’ so followed the noise jamming a few seconds later. All this chaos was accompanied by the inevitable scenario described above that resulted in OC Air Wing announcing words to the effect that the Herc was to continue to refuel the Phantom until dry tanks and then throw himself bravely into the South Atlantic while the Phantom landed or diverted. The Herc captain’s response was to the effect “I’m not doing that for anyone, least of all HIM”! and promptly Foxtrot Oscared to Montevideo, leaving the Phantom to take the No 1 RHAG cable (with the No 2 BAK-13 as 'Alternate' diversion) at PLE.
All this time 4 x Harriers (having STOL’ed off downwind in the meantime) were providing the CAP that the original Phantom had been sent to pick-up at the end of a ‘Presence Sortie’. They had scrambled and recovered on the 3,000 ft of available RW outside of Hardet. Yes, the Herc was RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of the 6,100 ft RW, almost to the inch. The reason for the CAP? It was the time of Mrs T’s visit and an overly enthusiastic FIADGE scopie had plotted an incoming ‘high speed’ track from the west heading for Stanley (and presumably Maggie) and scrambled Phandet and the Tanker to intercept; the ‘High Speed’ track turned out to be a Wessex Mk 3 Humphrey doing his ship/shore routine transit and probably going flat out at 90 kts. I needed a change of trousers as I thought my kex would never dry after pi$$ing myself laughing so much! Fred Karno’s Air Force wasn’t in it! Smudger Smith was my AATC and we both had tears of laughter rolling down our faces at one point.
But I loved it!
#120; do you REALLY think that the Tower Controller would have been making those calls to the distressed Phantomoff his own bat? I suspect that you’ll find that the old adage of ‘shoot the messenger’ is entirely appropriate here!!!
First, there would have been a DOF in the Tower – if not there already, then within nanoseconds of any ‘situation’ developing – and he would have been joined in microseconds by (not necessarily in order): the Flt Cdr, Sqn Cdr, OC Ops Wg, Staish, Padre, NAAFI Manager and dog, not to mention J Eng O, S Eng O, any other Eng O and any poor bl00dy erk who had worked on the jet in the last 3½ months!
Secondly, after testing the bearing strength of the floor in the VCR, each of the above worthies would immediately be issuing long, convoluted and usually contradictory orders/comments/advice/idiocy in steadily raising volumes while standing in front of the benighted ATCO blocking his view of the OTHER things that tend be happening at the same time (Crash Vehicles deploying, Police vehicles entering the runways unannounced, “Medic” getting lost on the Apron, etc) and that have to be monitored/supervised.
Finally, all of our Heroes would immediately assume the role of fully trained, endorsed, checked, standardised and examined ATCOs…….right up until the moment they were invited to Take Over Watch in the logbook!
#128; Wiggy, I WAS the Tower controller on that occasion! One of the funniest Phantom related incidents that I ever was involved in. Funny because the Phantom's C130 tanker wasn’t the only thing going Pete Tongue: at the same time there was the Chinook with the stuck transmit switch trying to get into ‘Replen’ and regaling the world on his views on life in the FIs in general and ATC units who wouldn’t answer his calls in particular. (Never thought to look at the cab for the green light that a) would have given him permission to cross the RW and land-on at Replen and b) given him the hint that all might not be well with the world RT-wise.) Allied to HM’s warship ECM operator who decided to listen-in to the excitement on the Twr frequency but had patently set his gear to broadcast barrage noise (DF literally pointed to the Grey Funnel Line boat in the outer harbour!) on whatever frequency he was monitoring, communication capacity was – at best - limited. As we played ‘chase me around the frequencies’ so followed the noise jamming a few seconds later. All this chaos was accompanied by the inevitable scenario described above that resulted in OC Air Wing announcing words to the effect that the Herc was to continue to refuel the Phantom until dry tanks and then throw himself bravely into the South Atlantic while the Phantom landed or diverted. The Herc captain’s response was to the effect “I’m not doing that for anyone, least of all HIM”! and promptly Foxtrot Oscared to Montevideo, leaving the Phantom to take the No 1 RHAG cable (with the No 2 BAK-13 as 'Alternate' diversion) at PLE.
All this time 4 x Harriers (having STOL’ed off downwind in the meantime) were providing the CAP that the original Phantom had been sent to pick-up at the end of a ‘Presence Sortie’. They had scrambled and recovered on the 3,000 ft of available RW outside of Hardet. Yes, the Herc was RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of the 6,100 ft RW, almost to the inch. The reason for the CAP? It was the time of Mrs T’s visit and an overly enthusiastic FIADGE scopie had plotted an incoming ‘high speed’ track from the west heading for Stanley (and presumably Maggie) and scrambled Phandet and the Tanker to intercept; the ‘High Speed’ track turned out to be a Wessex Mk 3 Humphrey doing his ship/shore routine transit and probably going flat out at 90 kts. I needed a change of trousers as I thought my kex would never dry after pi$$ing myself laughing so much! Fred Karno’s Air Force wasn’t in it! Smudger Smith was my AATC and we both had tears of laughter rolling down our faces at one point.
But I loved it!
Last edited by Downwind.Maddl-Land; 19th Aug 2012 at 15:36. Reason: To keep Courtney Mil happy!
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a hole with an owl
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting post, DM-L, with some very valid points. We had an OC Flying Wing at Chiv who would immediately appear in the tower at the merest sniff of an aircraft with a problem, boot the Duty Aircrew Officer out of his seat and take over the reins. As soon as the jet was safely on the ground he'd pat himself on the back for a job well done and thin out back to his office - bloody annoying! On one occasion, the DAO got so hacked off that he went back to the sqn and left him to it - cue instant 50Hz smile from OCFW and a bollocking for the DAO. As you rightly said, if it was a particularly juicy emergency, then every man and his dog would appear out of the woodwork.
However, coming back to the blocked runway incident, when I first posted, I was racking my brains to recall any involvement from the DOF. Bearing in mind this was sometime between Sep 85 and Jan 86 (log books are in storage while we're renovating Château Qadoo) my memory of the finer details has faded, but I seem to recall thinking at the time that it was one of those incidents where the DOF couldn't really help: we were the only fixed-wing aircraft airborne for hundreds of miles, there was no scope for diverting or launching the tanker and the options were clear-cut: 1) take the 09 wire or 2) run out of fuel and eject. For once, rather than flash-mobbing the tower, the usual cast, comprised of; OC 23, EngOs various, OC blankets, C in C Strike - ably assisted by the Central Band of the RAF - were all busy trying to get the aircraft out of the wire in order to let us land.
The other possibility, and maybe your memory of the tower at Stanley is better than mine, is a disconnect between DOF and controller. Mea culpa if I've remembered this wrongly, but I seem to recall that the visual controller and his/her assistant sat in a little garden shed affair perched on the flat roof of the main tower and the DOF sat downstairs in what had been the civi VCR - complete with cracked glass from the Vulcan raids - and so when the controller picked up the Verey pistol, the DOF may not have had time to intervene.
However, coming back to the blocked runway incident, when I first posted, I was racking my brains to recall any involvement from the DOF. Bearing in mind this was sometime between Sep 85 and Jan 86 (log books are in storage while we're renovating Château Qadoo) my memory of the finer details has faded, but I seem to recall thinking at the time that it was one of those incidents where the DOF couldn't really help: we were the only fixed-wing aircraft airborne for hundreds of miles, there was no scope for diverting or launching the tanker and the options were clear-cut: 1) take the 09 wire or 2) run out of fuel and eject. For once, rather than flash-mobbing the tower, the usual cast, comprised of; OC 23, EngOs various, OC blankets, C in C Strike - ably assisted by the Central Band of the RAF - were all busy trying to get the aircraft out of the wire in order to let us land.
The other possibility, and maybe your memory of the tower at Stanley is better than mine, is a disconnect between DOF and controller. Mea culpa if I've remembered this wrongly, but I seem to recall that the visual controller and his/her assistant sat in a little garden shed affair perched on the flat roof of the main tower and the DOF sat downstairs in what had been the civi VCR - complete with cracked glass from the Vulcan raids - and so when the controller picked up the Verey pistol, the DOF may not have had time to intervene.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
As you rightly said, if it was a particularly juicy emergency, then every man and his dog would appear out of the woodwork.
I always worked on the basis that the men in the jet were in control/command of the jet and the man in the seat was in charge of the situation on the ground, offering advice to the crew where required and overseeing the ground stuff, rescue services, divs, other aircraft (not controlling them). The man in the chair stayed there until relieved or relinquished his position to someone else. I have often stopped (even senior) people from entering the VCR on the grounds that they had nothing to add and would only get in the way and, therefore, hinder the safe recovery of a jet with an emergency.
To OC Eng: "If you can fix the jet from here, please come in."
To OC Ops: "Your staff have everything under control on the airfield."
To the DAO when I was DOF: "You know the situation better than I. If you need me I'm close by, if not crack on."
Don't recall the Stn Cdr ever trying to interfere and certainly NEVER allowed the JEngO, SEngO, Sqn execs up the stairs.
To OC Eng: "If you can fix the jet from here, please come in."
To OC Ops: "Your staff have everything under control on the airfield."
To the DAO when I was DOF: "You know the situation better than I. If you need me I'm close by, if not crack on."
Don't recall the Stn Cdr ever trying to interfere and certainly NEVER allowed the JEngO, SEngO, Sqn execs up the stairs.
Please excuse a tiny thread drift, but a funny thing happened to me and the tale does, at least, include the word "Phantom" (3 times).
After two tours on the Phantom I had a holiday in Devon as a Hawk QWI. To my suprise and joy, Barnwood asked me if I would move to the USA to be an instructor in the F-15. They eventually talked me into it!
During my short conversion course I was called upon to go and meet a big gas station in the sky and take a few thousand pounds of Uncle Sam's finest jet fuel.
"Courtney, you've done a lot of tanking in the Phantom, haven't you?"
"Loads".
"OK, well you're not required to do the dual sortie, just the phase brief."
"OK." How hard can it be?
Getting astern the 135 was easy. The director lights were little use, because of bright sun and the fact that they're set up for really big bombers, not big fighters. I found the right position and was 'plugged' by the boomer. Fuel transferred, I hit the disconnect button to no avail. After several unsuccessful attempt, I eventually opted for a 'brute force disconnect', simply move down and back until the boom unplugs. No problem.
Good sortie, nice rtb, coffee and into the debrief.
"Tanking looked OK, why the need for the brute force disconnect?"
"The normal disconnect didn't work so I just backed off."
"Is that the first time you've had to do that?"
"No, with the probe and drogue in our Phantoms we always do it like that."
"WHAT? You've never used the boom before?"
To balance the books, I flew the AAR dual sortie after the solo.
After two tours on the Phantom I had a holiday in Devon as a Hawk QWI. To my suprise and joy, Barnwood asked me if I would move to the USA to be an instructor in the F-15. They eventually talked me into it!
During my short conversion course I was called upon to go and meet a big gas station in the sky and take a few thousand pounds of Uncle Sam's finest jet fuel.
"Courtney, you've done a lot of tanking in the Phantom, haven't you?"
"Loads".
"OK, well you're not required to do the dual sortie, just the phase brief."
"OK." How hard can it be?
Getting astern the 135 was easy. The director lights were little use, because of bright sun and the fact that they're set up for really big bombers, not big fighters. I found the right position and was 'plugged' by the boomer. Fuel transferred, I hit the disconnect button to no avail. After several unsuccessful attempt, I eventually opted for a 'brute force disconnect', simply move down and back until the boom unplugs. No problem.
Good sortie, nice rtb, coffee and into the debrief.
"Tanking looked OK, why the need for the brute force disconnect?"
"The normal disconnect didn't work so I just backed off."
"Is that the first time you've had to do that?"
"No, with the probe and drogue in our Phantoms we always do it like that."
"WHAT? You've never used the boom before?"
To balance the books, I flew the AAR dual sortie after the solo.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK and where I'm sent!
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It didn't occur to you to mention that BEFORE your first sortie? Gutsy move, Mav. Or...
Just a thought. Why did the disconnect not work? Wrong button?
Just a thought. Why did the disconnect not work? Wrong button?
Last edited by Mach Two; 20th Aug 2012 at 09:05.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: flat & wet
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Goose Bay homeward bound from some Flag exercise. 4x rhino's with 3x VC-10s. Briefing after the night before, tanker mates give us all the outbound tracks to fly so that we catch up with them after theyve done their first transfer so that they're ready for us.
Warning guys, outbound tracks are magnetic, variation of 30+ degrees etc (at which point all front-seaters switch off and resume sleep) etc etc.
All airborne as planned, me (lead nav) searching sky ahead for our petrol station, getting more and more concerned about dodgy knurling technique and still nothing on the scope. Front seat pressure starts to build, we double check headings, wind etc etc. and finally my pride gives in and I tell the world we cant find the tankers.....
yep..... all 3 VC-10's had set off on the wrong track because they hadnt taken the 30 degree variation into account
Warning guys, outbound tracks are magnetic, variation of 30+ degrees etc (at which point all front-seaters switch off and resume sleep) etc etc.
All airborne as planned, me (lead nav) searching sky ahead for our petrol station, getting more and more concerned about dodgy knurling technique and still nothing on the scope. Front seat pressure starts to build, we double check headings, wind etc etc. and finally my pride gives in and I tell the world we cant find the tankers.....
yep..... all 3 VC-10's had set off on the wrong track because they hadnt taken the 30 degree variation into account
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a hole with an owl
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just idly curious
Re UD's post, in all my time in the RAF (1976-95) I never once heard the F-4 referred to as a 'Rhino.' I presume the name came from the US in the same way as SLUF, BUF, Warthog, Aardvark, Spaarkvark (always liked that one), Thud etc, but when did 'Rhino' enter the vocabulary of RAF F-4 operators?
Not being picky or difficult, just idly curious.
Not being picky or difficult, just idly curious.
Last edited by Ali Qadoo; 28th Sep 2012 at 08:52.
AliQ, I agree.....
Similarly, why would 3 VC10s be needed to recover only 4 x F-4?
I've never heard of such a strange procedure - when was this alleged trail?
As for the nonsense of the magnetic variation comment, VC10s would be navigated using INS to a defined waypoint and the alleged error is bolleaux!
Similarly, why would 3 VC10s be needed to recover only 4 x F-4?
Briefing after the night before, tanker mates give us all the outbound tracks to fly so that we catch up with them after they've done their first transfer so that they're ready for us.
As for the nonsense of the magnetic variation comment, VC10s would be navigated using INS to a defined waypoint and the alleged error is bolleaux!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 91
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very Odd
I tend to agree- very Odd that 3x VC10 an aircraft equipped to fly airways would all be lost and not 1 Nav would say anything.....I confess to loosing visual with the tanker and drifting into Libyan airspace en route to Cyprus but that i put down to a Hangover !- yes my thoughts are well odd
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 91
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very Odd
I tend to agree- very Odd that 3x VC10 an aircraft equipped to fly airways would all be lost and not 1 Nav would say anything.....I confess to loosing visual with the tanker and drifting into Libyan airspace en route to Cyprus but that i put down to a Hangover !- yes my thoughts are well odd- As i recall the F4 only ever visited the USA in the late 1980s or early 1990s or the other time was the tanker trail to bring the F4J UK s back- May 1984
- As i recall the F4 only ever visited the USA in the late 1980s or early 1990s or the other time was the tanker trail to bring the F4J UK s back- May 1984
Last edited by Scruffy Fanny; 28th Sep 2012 at 11:55.