Any Phantom stories out there?
Amazing how effective the wing fold was in reducing the area you needed to store the aircraft. When 43 Sqn stopped operating them in 1989, many of the jets had to be kept on the HAS site for several months. With dexterous use of a tractor and by folding the wings and swinging the radomes, we managed to fit 4 Phantoms in a Mk3 HAS. Not a lot of room for anything else!
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I thought that only spotters and spotter comics used that rather than the correct term 'Phantom F4J(UK)'?
Most of us are a lot more savvy than you (don't) give us credit for
-RP
Last edited by Rhino power; 7th Aug 2012 at 16:56.
KG86
Had a very similar "overtake" by Cliff Spink in an F4, passing us in an S61, up by Saunders Island (Falklands) at about 500ft. His wings wobbled a bit and the afterburners came on as he passed - afterwards he told us he had got a bit too slow.............
As I reached it at 120 kts and 500 ft agl, most eyes were looking ahead for the airfield and, as I checked in with Tower, they said "Are you visual with the F4 in your 3 o'clock?"
Four sets of eyes swivelled to the right, to see an F4G, about 50 metres away, level, very slowly passing us, flaps and slats down, blown air going ten to the dozen, and two German aviators grinning at us and waving.
Four sets of eyes swivelled to the right, to see an F4G, about 50 metres away, level, very slowly passing us, flaps and slats down, blown air going ten to the dozen, and two German aviators grinning at us and waving.
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F4 Chinograph myth
I never knew if this were true but I heard the US Marines or Navy had a game of writing on the outside of the canopy whilst in flight. If I remember you could open the canopy below 60 kts. The Trick was allegedly to taxi out canopies shut and no writing on the outside once airborne you had to open the canopy below 60 kts and write your name on the outside- when you landed you had to Taxy back to the ramp with the evidence on the outside- always sounded a bit far fetched to me ....
There is a picture in the Puma scrap book in Aldergrove, (if it is still there) that was taken of the last FAA F4 with two Pumas on it wings. The Tomb was flown by the unit test pilot before it was going to be modified for RAF service and it was the only time when a F4s minimum speed was the same as a Puma could manage with a bit in hand for formation keeping.
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Falkland Islands - I learnt about flying...
Hi Ant T. I brought that photo back to the UK (thanks for the hospitality; a great couple of days). The crew, I am led to believe, were distracted and ended up a little lower than optimal. The incident was discovered as one of the engines was running a bit hot - the boroscope revealed copper (remains of aerial wire) splattered on the blades. My favourite part of this story is the arrival of the investigators on Saunders Island demanding to have the low flying incident prosecuted with something along the lines of: "I think you'll find we have the law on our side". The answer was allegedly: "I think you'll find you're on my land; *!*$ off".
and ended up a little lower than optimal. The incident was discovered as one of the engines was running a bit hot - the boroscope revealed copper (remains of aerial wire) splattered on the blades. My favourite part of this story is the arrival of the investigators on Saunders Island demanding to have the low flying incident prosecuted with something along the lines of: "I think you'll find we have the law on our side". The answer was allegedly: "I think you'll find you're on my land; *!*$ off".
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Hi Ant T
That wouldn't be the lovely P___-E____ of Saunders would it ? Have some great copies of pics of theirs of Saunders shenanigans plus some we took whilst visiting. Very happy memories of our time with them.
Cheers
DF
That wouldn't be the lovely P___-E____ of Saunders would it ? Have some great copies of pics of theirs of Saunders shenanigans plus some we took whilst visiting. Very happy memories of our time with them.
Cheers
DF
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I once had the "pleasure" of watching the F4's groundspeed go to zero shortly followed by the airspeed likewise. We were in the vertical, 90 deg nose up, at 24k over Wideawake Airfield, Ascension at the time. The next couple of minutes were interesting!
BSweeper, been there, seen that! Only in my case it was during aggressor training with the guys from Alconbury. Having gone vertical, whilst looking back over my shoulder for the F-5 I inadvertently relaxed the back pressure, so instead of looping over we went straight up...
Next thing was more AoA than IAS, pedal shakers, rude remarks from the back seat and "I guess you'll be coming down?" from the F-5..... But the advertised recovery procedure worked just fine and the jet gently pitched forward into a dive with no wing rock or other nasties......
Next thing was more AoA than IAS, pedal shakers, rude remarks from the back seat and "I guess you'll be coming down?" from the F-5..... But the advertised recovery procedure worked just fine and the jet gently pitched forward into a dive with no wing rock or other nasties......
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Below 60 kts
Ive seen the speed below 60 kts a few times- luckily never in an F4- once on my IRT part 2 in a Lightning- IRE says close your eyes pulls into the pure vertical and then announced "recover" with 0 on the clock the MRG pointing upwards the recovery from the tail slide was to say the least careful- I also put a Mirage2000 into the vertical and looked over my shoulder to watch the F15 trying to gun me - As I departed controlled flight and ended up pointing down vertically the aircraft doing some wing rocking Mr F15 came filled my HUD - selected guns I called Fox3 knock it off- Mr F15 was most impressed - from my side I almost had to visit clothing stores for new underwear- never did tell the Eagle driver
My Dad...
My dad flew USN/USMC Phantoms in the 60s and early 70s.
He walked out on the flight line for his first flight. Normally there would have been an instructor pilot to ride in the back seat for an initial flight (no flight controls in the back of USN F-4s). There was just an NFO there who said he was on the schedule. They climbed in, and my dad flew. Nothing ever came of it.
The F-4 could reach a rather high altitude if you were "creative." It was possible to fly a specific speed/altitude/power profile and pitch up steeply and climb, climb, climb, flame out, coast, coast coast up over the top of a ~70,000' ballistic arc. My dad says he always got restarts by 10,000'
If you over rotated the Phantom on take off, it was possible for the wing to blank out air flow over the horizonatl stabilizer. My dad watched a Phantom rocking left/right as it blasted down the runway over-rotated riding on its exhaust. The visiting Royal Navy officer punched out of the backseat but the pilot died after the a/c fell off on one side.
Mig v F-4. USN/USAF pilots were unable to turn with the North Vietnamese MiGs due to differences in wing loading (It's my understanding the Phantom was the densest airplane ever made). The MiG would break, and the Phantom pilot would go into full burner (reaheat for my British friends), pitch vertical, and bring the nose down while inverted and follow the target...
A Phantom with full tanks can make 2/3 of the trip from San Diego to Hawaii. Fly 1/3 of the way and fail to link up with the tanker and you had just enough fuel to make it back. Plug into the tanker and you had just enough fuel to make Hawaii if tanker number 2 failed to show.
My dad made many trips between California and Viet Nam. We would fly (supposedly) overhauled aircraft back to the war zone and bring damaged a/c back. Interestingly, based on his stories, the "repaired" aircraft seemed to cause more problems than the damaged ones.
Once coming back from Viet Nam my dad's wing man had to punch out. The Phantom's centerline fuel tank didn't have a pump; it used bleed air to force fuel out. This pilot failed to follow his checklist and didn't use the centerline fuel first. The line froze blocking fuel flow. The pilot ejected when he was unable to reach a tanker or reach land. Fuel, fuel everywhere, and not a drop...
My dad's last flight in a tactical aircraft was ~1973 and his last flight at the controls of a jet in 1975. A few years ago he was travelling through southern Alabama when he saw a sign for an airplane museum. He commented to my step-mother as he walked up to the Phantom that he had "forgotten how big it was."
Has there ever been another airplane that looked as "fighterish" just sitting looking at you?
Terry
Somewhere I have my dad's 2,000h Phantom II patch.
He walked out on the flight line for his first flight. Normally there would have been an instructor pilot to ride in the back seat for an initial flight (no flight controls in the back of USN F-4s). There was just an NFO there who said he was on the schedule. They climbed in, and my dad flew. Nothing ever came of it.
The F-4 could reach a rather high altitude if you were "creative." It was possible to fly a specific speed/altitude/power profile and pitch up steeply and climb, climb, climb, flame out, coast, coast coast up over the top of a ~70,000' ballistic arc. My dad says he always got restarts by 10,000'
If you over rotated the Phantom on take off, it was possible for the wing to blank out air flow over the horizonatl stabilizer. My dad watched a Phantom rocking left/right as it blasted down the runway over-rotated riding on its exhaust. The visiting Royal Navy officer punched out of the backseat but the pilot died after the a/c fell off on one side.
Mig v F-4. USN/USAF pilots were unable to turn with the North Vietnamese MiGs due to differences in wing loading (It's my understanding the Phantom was the densest airplane ever made). The MiG would break, and the Phantom pilot would go into full burner (reaheat for my British friends), pitch vertical, and bring the nose down while inverted and follow the target...
A Phantom with full tanks can make 2/3 of the trip from San Diego to Hawaii. Fly 1/3 of the way and fail to link up with the tanker and you had just enough fuel to make it back. Plug into the tanker and you had just enough fuel to make Hawaii if tanker number 2 failed to show.
My dad made many trips between California and Viet Nam. We would fly (supposedly) overhauled aircraft back to the war zone and bring damaged a/c back. Interestingly, based on his stories, the "repaired" aircraft seemed to cause more problems than the damaged ones.
Once coming back from Viet Nam my dad's wing man had to punch out. The Phantom's centerline fuel tank didn't have a pump; it used bleed air to force fuel out. This pilot failed to follow his checklist and didn't use the centerline fuel first. The line froze blocking fuel flow. The pilot ejected when he was unable to reach a tanker or reach land. Fuel, fuel everywhere, and not a drop...
My dad's last flight in a tactical aircraft was ~1973 and his last flight at the controls of a jet in 1975. A few years ago he was travelling through southern Alabama when he saw a sign for an airplane museum. He commented to my step-mother as he walked up to the Phantom that he had "forgotten how big it was."
Has there ever been another airplane that looked as "fighterish" just sitting looking at you?
Terry
Somewhere I have my dad's 2,000h Phantom II patch.
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Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time
It was a sunny day during the balmy summer of 1976 at an airfield in Suffolk. All summer we had endured the pilots from the other squadron, who were flying the vertical twin jet, showing us how great their jet was. As the JP and only FO pilot on the Squadron it was my place to show them better. I had tried a few times to do an impressive take-off but couldn’t quite get it right. The idea was to turn through 180 degrees after take-off inside the concrete revetments, where there is now a HAS site. On this particular day I was flying with the loudest navigator in the RAF and I had a great idea. After airborne, as soon as the gear was travelling, as I rolled right and pulled back hard, I also applied a boot full of right rudder. The next thing I noticed was the ground rushing past very close. I had the stick a long way back and the speed stagnated at 180 kts. As we hadn’t yet crashed, for a second I did nothing. Then very slowly, over what seemed like an eternity, I eased off the control inputs. Throughout, my earphones were filled with a very loud “fantastic, great, that showed those firebird bas***ds”, and other expletives. Eventually, having turned through 180 degrees, the sick and rudder were central so I eased off on the units. The speed shot through 200 kts we climbed out to the NE almost as though nothing had happened. I never have been sure whether my nav knows how close we were that day!
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How high?
I'm sure more than a few people have tried this.
In the late 80s a Royal Air Force F4 OCU crew followed a profile similar to Terry's dad, managing to exceed FL660. They proudly called Victor Mike on top at which point the Fighter Controller declared them clear of controlled airspace, radar service terminated. Following the double flame out they asked to re-enter controlled airspace. The FC refused (knowing what was happening) and asked if they had a problem staying clear of controlled airspace. They had to declare an emergency at which point entry to controlled airspace was permitted.
Somewhere I have my 1000 hours Phantom patch.
In the late 80s a Royal Air Force F4 OCU crew followed a profile similar to Terry's dad, managing to exceed FL660. They proudly called Victor Mike on top at which point the Fighter Controller declared them clear of controlled airspace, radar service terminated. Following the double flame out they asked to re-enter controlled airspace. The FC refused (knowing what was happening) and asked if they had a problem staying clear of controlled airspace. They had to declare an emergency at which point entry to controlled airspace was permitted.
Somewhere I have my 1000 hours Phantom patch.
Last edited by Exmil; 8th Aug 2012 at 14:47. Reason: Added information
C-B,I thought that was P*^e L*n$%n...!
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Farewell F4J.
Aware as I am that I am a mere worm in such regal company as this site I am always interested,as a mere enthusiast, n the tales of such winged gentlemen as aircrew. Living at Combs, a mere 3 miles from Wattisham as the Phantom flies, I well remember a January morning many years back when the distant roar of of many jet-turbines was heard. A quick scramble in the trusty Vauxhall saw me at crash-gate 2 where I learnt that the noise was a mass take-off of 74's F-4J's to mark the end of this model and the transition to the FGR.2. Shortly a diamond-9 plus a couple of spares did a few fly-bys over the field before landing on 05.
Landing from this direction meant that all the jets had to taxi back on the peri-track past CG.2. As they left the runway all the jets folded their wings in navy Aircraft Carrier fashion.
I was told by a trusted expert that the F.4J was the only model of Phantom that could carry this procedure out while taxying in - due to its ex-US Navy history.
Was this not right? I included this tale in my "RAF Wattisham - A pictorial history" which Ad Hoc published in 2008 which is the reason for my concern. Best to all.
Dave Eade
Landing from this direction meant that all the jets had to taxi back on the peri-track past CG.2. As they left the runway all the jets folded their wings in navy Aircraft Carrier fashion.
I was told by a trusted expert that the F.4J was the only model of Phantom that could carry this procedure out while taxying in - due to its ex-US Navy history.
Was this not right? I included this tale in my "RAF Wattisham - A pictorial history" which Ad Hoc published in 2008 which is the reason for my concern. Best to all.
Dave Eade
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Plenty as of 13 Nov 12
My proceeds to RAF charities so be gentle with me!
My proceeds to RAF charities so be gentle with me!
