Noise compaints -Hercules.
Ken S,
It is perhaps comments like this
from earlier in the thread which might suggest some personnel have a slightly cavalier attitude to noise.
Also the fact that the problem has, to some extent, been mitigated by moving the aircraft round to different locations for ground runs would suggest that there had been a lack of thought given to the potential noise impact that a relatively easy measure (bit of extra towing) was able to address.
It is perhaps comments like this
My last Ground Run in the RAF I did a VIP during God Slot and because it was on a Royal I had permission to do a low power run.... I had them up at full chat
Also the fact that the problem has, to some extent, been mitigated by moving the aircraft round to different locations for ground runs would suggest that there had been a lack of thought given to the potential noise impact that a relatively easy measure (bit of extra towing) was able to address.
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Flap, there was no ground running moratorium during that period other than the Staishes due to him being at Church, it was nothing to do with upsetting the locals as the bans to not upset them were not involved, we used to do parallel starts after the ground running ban periods came into effect at night and would only start up with a departing jet to do any runs and shut down after it left, and only then if it was a serious operational urgency,
BUT it comes back to the old adage, do NOT buy a house adjacent to an Airfield and expect it not to be noisy, it should be law that you should sign a disclaimer accepting it will be noisy when you buy it... If you do not like it then tough, Brize has been there since 1937, most of the locals haven't, house prices reflect the noise and they need to accept it of move elsewhere.
I Live within a mile of a current major regional airport I work at and I except the noise and hey guess what, it's the major freight airport in the UK and is open 24/ 7 it does MORE movements at night than during the day..... Do I bitch about the noise? NO, I knew it was there when I bought Nutloose Manor.. And these turkeys should too.
BUT it comes back to the old adage, do NOT buy a house adjacent to an Airfield and expect it not to be noisy, it should be law that you should sign a disclaimer accepting it will be noisy when you buy it... If you do not like it then tough, Brize has been there since 1937, most of the locals haven't, house prices reflect the noise and they need to accept it of move elsewhere.
I Live within a mile of a current major regional airport I work at and I except the noise and hey guess what, it's the major freight airport in the UK and is open 24/ 7 it does MORE movements at night than during the day..... Do I bitch about the noise? NO, I knew it was there when I bought Nutloose Manor.. And these turkeys should too.
Last edited by NutLoose; 30th Oct 2012 at 21:33.
Brize may have been around from the 30's but the C130 operated from Lyneham and it was a government decision to madly close that field and transfer ops to Brize. Did the government consult with the locals?
If it was as easy as Nutloose suggests then Heathrow would currently have four runways never mind three on the wishlist and further "township cleansing" underway!
If it was as easy as Nutloose suggests then Heathrow would currently have four runways never mind three on the wishlist and further "township cleansing" underway!
Last edited by nivsy; 31st Oct 2012 at 12:38.
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From the other side of the world...
In the mid 80's I was a QFI at 1FTS at RAAF Point Cook, and a whole lot of land between the base and the Princess Highway was released by Government to developers for housing.
When the first open day (a Saturday) was approaching for people to come and buy a block of land, the developer came spoke to the Air Commodore, asking that the "planes stay away" so not to deter people from buying.
The developer had obviously not done his homework. This was the military, we did not operate on the weekends, and stand down was from about 1530 on Fridays!
Anyway, the Air Commodore was a bit of a stategic thinker and could see the issues ahead. So, he ordered a full working weekend and as it so happened, one pilot course was in the middle of doing their circuit training leading up to first solo's and the course ahead was due for night circuit training.
I can't really remember how many CT-4's we used to have on line - say it was 25; well every one of them flew 3 or 4 sorties per day over that weekend, as did all of the staff.
It made the local paper - I remember the headline "RAAF 1, LANDCOM 0".
I seem to recall that the developement did not really "take off" until the based closed to regulary military operations about 7 years later.
Slight thread drift...
In the mid 80's I was a QFI at 1FTS at RAAF Point Cook, and a whole lot of land between the base and the Princess Highway was released by Government to developers for housing.
When the first open day (a Saturday) was approaching for people to come and buy a block of land, the developer came spoke to the Air Commodore, asking that the "planes stay away" so not to deter people from buying.
The developer had obviously not done his homework. This was the military, we did not operate on the weekends, and stand down was from about 1530 on Fridays!
Anyway, the Air Commodore was a bit of a stategic thinker and could see the issues ahead. So, he ordered a full working weekend and as it so happened, one pilot course was in the middle of doing their circuit training leading up to first solo's and the course ahead was due for night circuit training.
I can't really remember how many CT-4's we used to have on line - say it was 25; well every one of them flew 3 or 4 sorties per day over that weekend, as did all of the staff.
It made the local paper - I remember the headline "RAAF 1, LANDCOM 0".
I seem to recall that the developement did not really "take off" until the based closed to regulary military operations about 7 years later.
Slight thread drift...
Noise annoys
The comments by residents about aircraft noise are not new. The Hercules OCU at Thorney Island used to go on detachment for a fortnight during each course so we did not disturb the myriad retired navy high ups who had retired to the area, this was in 1968! Mind you a holiday in Malta was quite welcome in the winter. My next posting to Akrotiri didn't quite produce the same level of complaints despite the presence of Lightnings, Canberras, Vulcans and that was just the resident fast jets.
A return to the subject airfield of Brize in 1971 on Brittannias had some of the same problems mentioned now but doing ground runs out of hours was generally masked by doing them during aircraft departures. However the locals at that time seemed to realise that if you had a military base near you it was liable to be a bit noisy at times. If there was a particulary vocal complainer the Staish used to invite them to his residence with the timing arranged for a VC 10 departure in a westerley direction. This would normally result in a rotation just about opposite his residence and he would then remark that you think its noisy where you live! It often seemed to work.
A stint at LYN followed and living in the village was a peaceful existence, a lovely noise a Herc makes. And beleive you me follow that up with three years on Tornados and then you really know what noise is like! Follow that up with the Bulldogs and Chippies at Abingdon and even my daughter (aged three ) used to say "aren't these aeroplanes quiet dad".
Then to finish off my time back on the Hercs at Lyneham and find that people still complained about aircraft noise after they moved into the area was rather suprising. One guy comes to memory as, after moving into Tockenham village right under the flight path, he used to phone up to get complaints registered as he was trying to get his rates reduced. I believe that the rating officer on the council wasn't too sympathetic as he lived in Bradenstoke!
That there is some justification for complaints can be felt when you realise that in my days on the Brits if you were doing a prop governor check,(a certain power setting and drop the prop into fine pitch to produce an overspeed with the prop bouncing off the govenor) you could, depending on wind direction and speed be heard in Witney. This was often confirmed by the following shift commenting on your ground runs when they came in to work.
It certainly does seem though that nowadays people are only to ready to complain about things that are of minimal intrusion to their lives. maybe I'm just a throwback to the days when you put up with a lot more.
A return to the subject airfield of Brize in 1971 on Brittannias had some of the same problems mentioned now but doing ground runs out of hours was generally masked by doing them during aircraft departures. However the locals at that time seemed to realise that if you had a military base near you it was liable to be a bit noisy at times. If there was a particulary vocal complainer the Staish used to invite them to his residence with the timing arranged for a VC 10 departure in a westerley direction. This would normally result in a rotation just about opposite his residence and he would then remark that you think its noisy where you live! It often seemed to work.
A stint at LYN followed and living in the village was a peaceful existence, a lovely noise a Herc makes. And beleive you me follow that up with three years on Tornados and then you really know what noise is like! Follow that up with the Bulldogs and Chippies at Abingdon and even my daughter (aged three ) used to say "aren't these aeroplanes quiet dad".
Then to finish off my time back on the Hercs at Lyneham and find that people still complained about aircraft noise after they moved into the area was rather suprising. One guy comes to memory as, after moving into Tockenham village right under the flight path, he used to phone up to get complaints registered as he was trying to get his rates reduced. I believe that the rating officer on the council wasn't too sympathetic as he lived in Bradenstoke!
That there is some justification for complaints can be felt when you realise that in my days on the Brits if you were doing a prop governor check,(a certain power setting and drop the prop into fine pitch to produce an overspeed with the prop bouncing off the govenor) you could, depending on wind direction and speed be heard in Witney. This was often confirmed by the following shift commenting on your ground runs when they came in to work.
It certainly does seem though that nowadays people are only to ready to complain about things that are of minimal intrusion to their lives. maybe I'm just a throwback to the days when you put up with a lot more.
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RAF issues another apology over engine noise - Witney Gazette 3 Nov 12
Wouldn't it be cheaper just to reopen Lyneham? It would be interesting to know just what savings have been made by closeing it in the first place! I wonder when the residents of Carterton and Black Bourton will get a reduction in their council tax due to the excessive noise?
The RAF has sent out a letter explaining changes that are being made to try to minimise noise.
It says “significant operating constraints” on the location and time of testing had been implemented but said the success of these measures had been shortlived.
Air Commodore Jon Ager said: “This transient reduction may have been due to improved aircraft serviceability, summer holidays or the fact that we had exported training to other parts of the country.
“Nevertheless, the improvement that we thought we had achieved has not been sustained, and I apologise for that.
He added: “I and my team are working hard to reduce the environmental impact from C130 Hercules ground running. We remain committed to being a good neighbour and to working with the local community on environmental issues.”
The base has now brought in more staff and equipment to move the planes to areas of the base that minimise noise impact on residents and testing has been banned near the boundary fence close to Black Bourton.
The RAF is investigating how weather affects noise problems and is considering the idea of building enclosed engine testing facilities
It says “significant operating constraints” on the location and time of testing had been implemented but said the success of these measures had been shortlived.
Air Commodore Jon Ager said: “This transient reduction may have been due to improved aircraft serviceability, summer holidays or the fact that we had exported training to other parts of the country.
“Nevertheless, the improvement that we thought we had achieved has not been sustained, and I apologise for that.
He added: “I and my team are working hard to reduce the environmental impact from C130 Hercules ground running. We remain committed to being a good neighbour and to working with the local community on environmental issues.”
The base has now brought in more staff and equipment to move the planes to areas of the base that minimise noise impact on residents and testing has been banned near the boundary fence close to Black Bourton.
The RAF is investigating how weather affects noise problems and is considering the idea of building enclosed engine testing facilities
Last edited by LFFC; 4th Nov 2012 at 19:04.
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"The base has now brought in more staff and equipment to move the planes to areas of the base that minimise noise impact on residents"
Really? I heard (and of course it's only a romour) that a number of sorties have been cancelled due to the back log of engine runs required.
Really? I heard (and of course it's only a romour) that a number of sorties have been cancelled due to the back log of engine runs required.
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O/T
Originally Posted by Brokenlink
Slight thread creep but the major downer in disposing of Watton is that nobody considered the VGS on site, currently several hundred cadets in East Anglia have no where to glide from (other VGS full up it appears) until a new home is found and the move paid for.
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BBC News - RAF Brize Norton spends £1.6m on cutting aircraft noise
1.6 Million spent at Brize, good to know the money was available..
1.6 Million spent at Brize, good to know the money was available..
BB
Surely the money will have been pre-allocated during the Investment Analysis phase for closing Lyneham... Probably at the same time as the adequacy of maintenance accommodation, facilities and housing were confirmed.
Its not as if they were long term hidden costs .... ignored for short term expediency, eh?
Surely the money will have been pre-allocated during the Investment Analysis phase for closing Lyneham... Probably at the same time as the adequacy of maintenance accommodation, facilities and housing were confirmed.
Its not as if they were long term hidden costs .... ignored for short term expediency, eh?
Hmmmm Elvington has just been hit with it.
Airfield bosses fined over noise (From York Press)
I used to live in one of the none double glazed, none soundproofed blocks at Brize for 5 years and my end room faced onto the runway...... People can't understand how I sleep today through the sound of the neighbours cat farting at 50 yards when they get up in arms about the most unobtrusive of noise.
Although that has nothing to do with aircraft noise, it's the drag racing that they do on the runway that's caused the aggro. The locals aren't bothered when the Nimrod/Victor get their occasional fire-ups.
Airfield bosses fined over noise (From York Press)
I used to live in one of the none double glazed, none soundproofed blocks at Brize for 5 years and my end room faced onto the runway...... People can't understand how I sleep today through the sound of the neighbours cat farting at 50 yards when they get up in arms about the most unobtrusive of noise.
Although that has nothing to do with aircraft noise, it's the drag racing that they do on the runway that's caused the aggro. The locals aren't bothered when the Nimrod/Victor get their occasional fire-ups.
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The VGS at Wethersfield used to get noise complaints from the locals, not complaining about the winch, but the ac!? It was a long time ago, but I don't remember Vikings being the noisiest ac I've ever heard!
