Iran Air 655 Incident- ACI last night.
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airpolice, are you saying my post was wrong or are you not only policing the air but grammar and/or spelling also? My excuse is, in my time zone it is now late and I am tired and made the odd mistake, what's yours?
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Come on then Jakey, start ripping into the Russians for Korean 007
To be fair he probably hasn't seen that episode of Air Crash Investigation yet
Whatever will he say about that one. The guy who pressed that button at least had a visual on his "bogie"
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Lord Spandex Masher, as serving military (at least for another few weeks 
), I was responding to what Jakey wrote in the bit I quoted - since he posted that comment about the value of military personnel before I quoted him I was not at all premature in my response.
MFC
Edited to add: However whilst posting the above I see this thread has been moderated and some posts, including the one to which you refer, have been deleted - so those arriving late may now be a bit confused
), I was responding to what Jakey wrote in the bit I quoted - since he posted that comment about the value of military personnel before I quoted him I was not at all premature in my response.MFC
Edited to add: However whilst posting the above I see this thread has been moderated and some posts, including the one to which you refer, have been deleted - so those arriving late may now be a bit confused
Last edited by MFC_Fly; 17th Jul 2012 at 18:33.
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MFC, I was just pointing out that you had used the wrong word, more than once.
The irony of you doing so, in pointing out that the troll had done the same thing with the "Murder" accusation, made me smile.
I do not see the captain as having committed murder at all
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I find it incredibly sad that such low value is placed upon human life by the military.
This is why I would never support a military charity or something of that ilk. In a democratic society, if one chooses to join the military, one accepts the risks.
The people on 665 had no such choice.
This is why I would never support a military charity or something of that ilk. In a democratic society, if one chooses to join the military, one accepts the risks.
The people on 665 had no such choice.
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You also fail to realise that the US ship had NO right to fire on anything, if the truth be known. The ICJ ruled that "this.... cannot be justified as measures necessary to protect the essential security interests of the United States of America"
His primary aim at that moment was to protect his ship from a (perceived) immediate threat. He had every right to do that.
If you had served, as even an MT driver, you would have a much clearer understanding of why you are on the wrong end of "them" and "us" in your arguments here. Even as a basic trainee, once weapon trained, you will guard the camp on which you serve. If you see a threat to security while patrolling, you are duty bound to prevent it from occurring. That may be by shooting an armed intruder. You don't stop and ask them politely for identification if they are pointing a weapon at you. You shoot them first.
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Lone Wolf,
The majority of us Brits are well aware that we are a "has been power". Isn't it about time that you yanks don't reallise that you have recently become so. At least our empire lasted longer than yours.
The majority of us Brits are well aware that we are a "has been power". Isn't it about time that you yanks don't reallise that you have recently become so. At least our empire lasted longer than yours.
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This is why I would never support a military charity
.
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Jakey...
But was it not you that wrote...
and...
Sorry, but are those of us in the military not humans? You obviously place a low value on our lives 
I find it incredibly sad that such low value is placed upon human life by the military.
it would have been far more preferable to lose the ship rather than the aircraft
Military service men have subscribed to serving to the death through choice
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This is why I would never support a military charity You're not going to make any friends like that. You've just insulted the whole of the military in one foul sweep. You're out of order
.
.
Nevertheless, I have not insulted anyone. I have merely stated my choice, which is my right. So a little less mock-hysteria please.
And, look at this logically- think of the seriously worthwhile charities- disabled kids, cancer, HIV, age charities....all are dealing with issues that the incumbent has had no choice in. They would always be more worthy, by my judgement.
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@MFC
Yes, in that situation, I believe absolutely that military personnel have less value than civilians, simply as they have signed up to a choice, and the civilians have not.
Yes, in that situation, I believe absolutely that military personnel have less value than civilians, simply as they have signed up to a choice, and the civilians have not.
You also fail to realise that the US ship had NO right to fire on anything, if the truth be known.
You are utterly unaware of reality, is that it?
It is a warship, and as such has the right to fire under a wide variety of conditions. Should Capt Rogers have opened fire?
In hindsight, no, and in the view of many of his professional peers At The Time, no. (We had this discussion a few months ago in JB, IIRC, same case.) You might want to familiarize yourself with the United States Naval Institue Proceedings, and the detailed coverage that professional forum (print media) undertook in the wake of that highly controversial, within the professional ranks of the United States Navy, incident.
As I hold your precious "internationa": courts in contempt, no further comment on that noise.
pontifex:
We'll see, though the current trend appears to be what you allude to. I don't trust your crystal ball any more than I do mine.
The "decline" of American power was much ballyhooed after Viet Nam as well.
Funny, that prediction wasn't spot on, was it?
We'll see, though the current trend appears to be what you allude to. I don't trust your crystal ball any more than I do mine.
The "decline" of American power was much ballyhooed after Viet Nam as well.
Funny, that prediction wasn't spot on, was it?
In a democratic society, if one chooses to join the military, one accepts the risks.
You don't have to like that fact, just accept it.
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Lonewolf
I really am speechless at your stupidity.
This was a rogue ship, with no agenda, no empowerment firing shots off like Yosemite Sam in a saloon bar, and you think that is justifiable?
Your nationalistic dick waving is embarrassing- America's Foreign Policy is an utter moral disgrace- we all know that- it is self serving to the nth degree.
There is little place in modern society for such anacronistic and archaic views. It is really quite worrying you think like that.
I really am speechless at your stupidity.
This was a rogue ship, with no agenda, no empowerment firing shots off like Yosemite Sam in a saloon bar, and you think that is justifiable?
Your nationalistic dick waving is embarrassing- America's Foreign Policy is an utter moral disgrace- we all know that- it is self serving to the nth degree.
There is little place in modern society for such anacronistic and archaic views. It is really quite worrying you think like that.
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Jakey,,,
FFS, the captain BELIEVED (based on the information he was being fed) that he was engaging an attacking aircraft with a crew of 2 to protect his ship with a crew of about 400 - he DID NOT KNOW that it was an airliner. He acted on the information he was given in the middle of a combat situation (remember the Iranian patrol boats opened fire at his helicopter first and later returned fire at his ship when he ordered warning shots to be fired at them for approaching his ship).
You are saying that you think he committed murder - the majority here are saying that we think that he did not.
FFS, the captain BELIEVED (based on the information he was being fed) that he was engaging an attacking aircraft with a crew of 2 to protect his ship with a crew of about 400 - he DID NOT KNOW that it was an airliner. He acted on the information he was given in the middle of a combat situation (remember the Iranian patrol boats opened fire at his helicopter first and later returned fire at his ship when he ordered warning shots to be fired at them for approaching his ship).
You are saying that you think he committed murder - the majority here are saying that we think that he did not.
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The "decline" of American power was much ballyhooed after Viet Nam as well.
Funny, that prediction wasn't spot on, was it?
Funny, that prediction wasn't spot on, was it?
Agent Orange is still causing havoc over there, and that's deplorable too.
I find it incredibly sad that such low value is placed upon human life by the military.
This is why I would never support a military charity or something of that ilk.
In a democratic society, if one chooses to join the military, one accepts the risks.
The people on 665 had no such choice.
@MFC
Yes, in that situation, I believe absolutely that military personnel have less value than civilians, simply as they have signed up to a choice, and the civilians have not.
Yes, in that situation, I believe absolutely that military personnel have less value than civilians, simply as they have signed up to a choice, and the civilians have not.
You will note that the title of this sub forum is: Military Aircrew.
See post number 4 in this thread: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...ml#post7300297
Jakey, if the intention has been a wind up, you are at least partially successful.
EDIT:
Ah, Jakey, your further wind up attempts noted:
Lonewolf
I really am speechless at your stupidity.
I really am speechless at your stupidity.
This was a rogue ship, with no agenda, no empowerment firing shots off like Yosemite Sam in a saloon bar, and you think that is justifiable?
Your nationalistic dick waving is embarrassing- America's Foreign Policy is an utter moral disgrace- we all know that- it is self serving to the nth degree.
In other words, assertion without support. Noise.
There is little place in modern society for such anacronistic and archaic views. It is really quite worrying you think like that.
a) you cannot read my mind and
b) you have demonstrated by falsely attempting to attribute various thoughts and ideas to me, you have no idea what I think like. I thus wonder just what it is you are worrying about.
Also, Jakey, you are now shown to be a blatant liar, as you previously claimed no anti-American motive in this thread.
By your own words convicted, Liar.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 17th Jul 2012 at 19:03.