Advice requested

[Samson12]

Hi all

First post but a long time spectator of pprune as I think most people in my position are!

I am coming towards the end of my second tour in the RAF rotary fleet. I have, after much thought decided that where I want to be, eventually, is flying as an airline pilot either from Manchester or with a company that would lend itself to returning to south of Manchester where my family will live. I would be happy to work anywhere as long as I could get home for a few days between routes.

I understand that probably the best way to achieve this would be to get a crossover onto the fixed wing fleet and serve out my commission until 38, 9 years from now in the RAF when I can take my immediate pension.

The RAF may not be this accommodating and if they won't offer a crossover then I am at the stage where I will PVR with my current hours, ivo 2000hrs total, 1300 P1 and 600 PiC.

I'd appreciate advice as to what you think my plan of action should be and which airlines I should be looking towards to achieve the above.

I know it won't be easy but I need to know that it's possible.

Thanks

[BEagle]

Are there any crossovers these days? If not:

1. Check the revised military accreditation criteria in CAP 804 when it is released in a few weeks time.

2. Establish whether it is worth going for a CPL(H) first, or whether you might as well go for a CPL(A) / IR(A). Whichever way is unlikely to be cheap, quick or painless, I regret to say.

3. With a CPL(A) / IR(A), you would at least stand a chance of being employable. A known-to-be QSP-friendly airline is Jet2, see http://www.jet2.com/Careers/In_The_A...irst_Officers/ . They are based at Leeds Bradford International Airport, with further bases at 7 other Northern UK airports - Belfast International, Blackpool, East Midlands, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester and Newcastle. They operate flights to over 50 destinations; their Chief Pilot is ex-RAF and tells me that all the QSPs he's recruited have done well.

4. Airlines look for 'experience commensurate with age', but the very best of luck to you!

[Courtney Mil]

I suspect you're right about the RAF being unlikely to cross you over as that would leave a gap in rotary (where they've already paid to train you) and fixed wing isn't exactly short of aircrew at the moment. Your prospects might be a lot better in the civvy helo world, or does that not appeal? With your experience, I would have thought you'd be a good prospect.

That said, there's no harm in exploring the options. You'll never know for sure until you ask. Maybe there's someone here that might be in the right place to offer an opinion.

I wish you the very best of luck with your endevour. Here's to a happy outcome.

Courtney

[Samson12]

Thanks

Beagle and courtney

Thanks for your quick replies. You did confirm my concerns about the unlikeliness of a crossover, I shall ask anyway, no harm in that! And I'm sure leaving with a large number of a330 hours couldn't hurt. Who knows it might even reinvigorate my esprit de corps, they were all out of that in stores when I checked!

The rotary civvy world doesn't really appeal, Having spoken to a few short and long haul pilots I've decided that's what best for me, wifey and young-un.

I understand that on the change over to EASA the rules for QSP are likely to change, as I understand it at the moment my previous fixed wing time, few hours Cessna and basic training on firefly would count as well as a MCC qual from my rotary experiance, but that in the interim I would need to make up 500 hrs at my own expense and pay for the licenses and exams. Is that correct?

S

[BEagle]

Samson12, the whole military accreditation system is in the process of changing, so you'll need to wait until there's an announcement. Anything else would be pure speculation at this time.

[SunderlandMatt]

Good luck Samson,

I clicked my way to freedom a few months ago with pretty similar levels of experience. I'm going down the rotary path as these are good times for OGP. I'm sure an SH mate would compete highly for an offshore job if you changed you mind.

The future for QSPs is slightly confused at the moment with very little info leaking out of the CAA. I'm sure BEagle will let us all know as soon as something has been made official as he seems to have an excellent link with all things licensing.

I know a few QSPs who've recently joined Jet2 and they all seem to be enjoying life. You're not always in control of where you operate from however so if Manchster is your wish, you may not get it for some time however.

I had a quick look in our stores over where I am and they too were fresh out of Esprit de Coprs. I'd be interested to hear if the Fixed Wing desk officer offers you a crossover. Wonder if they'd consider a service transfer as well as a platform crossover?

Good luck,

SM.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Some colleagues in my fleet asked about jumping ship from fast jets to one of the ME fleets recently; very open about it, happy to go through 45(R) and take anything they were selected for rather than a specific fleet or anything. They were told the door was very firmly closed, but I don't know if that's because they needed them to stay in the FJ world or if the ME world was full to bursting.

Good luck regardless; do ask the question!! If you want to build some FW hours of some variety, have you considered trying to get yourself to CFS to teach on the Tucano or Tutor? Not an A330, but still non-rotary hours, and probably a nice change away from the stuff that's starting to make RW life a grind.

[Yellow Sun]

I understand that probably the best way to achieve this would be to get a crossover onto the fixed wing fleet and serve out my commission until 38, 9 years from now in the RAF when I can take my immediate pension.

First thing to realise is that in civil aviation, timing is all. A couple of months can make an enormous difference; such as making the LHS in 18 months or 6 years; keeping your job or being made redundant; getting a stable base or having to commute for years. I speak from personal experience. The next thing to take on board is that there is no "plan", airlines can turn the tap on and off with startling rapidity; being made redundant and then re-employed within days has happened to many.

If you do not wish to stay in the air force for life then you must try to ensure that you have as much as possible in place to leave when it appears beneficial to do so, that means getting a licence; any licence. Once you have that, you are in a position to leave. If in the meantime you can gain additional qualifications then so much the better. You will then have more options to leave when it best suits you.

The attraction of an immediate pension at the 38 point is undeniable. But make sure that you become financially "savvy". This is essential if you are to properly weigh up the options.

flying as an airline pilot either from Manchester or with a company that would lend itself to returning to south of Manchester where my family will live. I would be happy to work anywhere as long as I could get home for a few days between routes.

Fine, settle your family where they will be most happy but make sure that everyone realises what they may have to put up with if you need to commute. It's not an easy lifestyle, no matter how you do it and you may have to do it for many years. Commuting fits in best with medium\long haul but that's not a type of work that suits everyone. Yes you can do it at 40, cope with it at 50 but do you really want to contemplate doing it at 60? You need to think hard about these things because as you get older the options to change diminish.

Whatever you decide, good luck. I took the plunge and although it was not easy at times, never regretted it. The best bit was gaining control and having more influence over the outcomes. But beware, the wrong call can cost you dear, a mate turned down a job at BCal, went to Danair and jumped ship to Air Europe and as a result had to spend years on contract in all sorts of insalubrious places before eventually managing to get a job with a UK charter operator.

ATB

YS

[High_Expect]

Yes innocent man, have you? I suggest a re read.

[Tinribs]

To swap or not to swap

I faced the same dilema many years ago, my situation was simpler as I was flying the Viscount in the RAF with an easy swap to civil flying, even so I thought long and hard

There are many ex chopper pilots flying fixed wing in airlines, when there is a shortage of pilots the airlines get hungry for experienced crew. There are lots of pilots about at the moment but that stock is dissapearing fast

Be wary of assuming that the pension you anticipate at 38 will arrive. I think a much more likely scenario is the preservation of that portion you have earned and the deletion of the rest from the date of change. It is a mistake to plan future events on the assumption that current arrangements will continue. This is especially so in the matter of pensions and the military, the two combined oh no

If transfer to fixed wing civil did not work there is much civil rotary going on. ABZ is heaving with angry palm trees

[Herod]

Good luck to you. I managed many years ago, (Wessex to C130), but there was a ground tour in between. I left with about 1,000 rotary and 1,000 fixed, and managed to find a job, although there weren't many going then. Fell on my feet a couple of years later, and stayed with that company for over 24 years, before it went to the wall. It's true that the airlines change recruiting policy regularly, usually on a Friday afternoon. (phone rings, "can you be on the course Monday?"). My advice would be to accept what you have at the moment and start putting money towards building the hours for the fixed-wing ATPL, perhaps take the rotary as well, and then look again. You'll be better placed, but be prepared for ups and downs. The 24 years job involved six bases and one redundancy/immediate re-appointment before it all ended.

[Sir George Cayley]

As said before timing is everything. For some reason airlines appear unable to add 60 to aircrews dates of birth. This gives rise to a 'Retirement Bulge'. Strike lucky and airlines will consider applicants who at other times wouldn't get much of a look in.

Good news is that BA have managed to coincide a small retirement bulge with a shed load of new (extra) airframes. They're busily vacuuming up crew from LoCo's as DEPs which in turn is creating space for people like you.

Getting some sort of civil licence asap is advised. Making yourself visible to recruiters is a tactic that needs some balls, but you have those don't you. Beat a path to the door. You've nothing to lose. And good luck.

SGC

ps South Manchester

[Samson12]

Thanks all

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I heed your warnings about the licensing and will keep my head down and get my ATPL as soon as we know what the new bridging package is likely to be.

The RAF seem to be quite onside and after hearing my issues they have given me a few options.

Who knows, one day you may be able to cut me in half and see 'Per Ardua Ad Astra' once again written through my core!

I shall keep you posted as to alternative employment as it presents itself.

Thanks again, i was rather on the verge of marching into the OCs office and placing my PVR papers on the desk.

And Mr Caley, Cheshire/Derbyshire/footballers wives country, old boy. Can't get too close to the Riff-Raff can we?