V Force fatalities

[Pontius Navigator]

I have added notes to November 4's Vulcan list and also two more aircraft. XH497 didn't crash on its final landing but the rear crew bailed out after the first attempt and XA891 was an A&AEE aircraft so not listed as an RAF loss.

Vulcan

XA897 01/10/1956
Sqn Ldr J Stroud, Sqn Ldr Eames AFC, Sqn Ldr A Gamble, Mr F Basset (ACM Sir H Broadhurst and Sqn Ldt D Howard survived)
Heathrow

*XH497 03/07/1958 - rear crew bailed out - nose u/c down but nosewheel fell off - rear crew (nav) killed, see Goudie post below. 617 Sqn

*XA891 24/07/1959 A&AEE engine installation development crashed in Yorkshire crew unhurt

VX770 20/09/1958
Mr K Sturt, Mr R Ford, Mr W Howkins, Flt Lt R Parrott
Syerston high speed run

XA908 24/10/1958
Flt Lt J Willoughby-Moore, Flt Lt B Peacock, Sqn Ldr H Scull, Flt Lt J Watson, Fg Off A Baker, CT E Evison
Detroit - electrical failure - cascade generator failure 83 sqn

XA904 01/03/1961
Landed on grass and undercarriage collapsed
Waddington 44 sqn

XH477 12/06/1963
Flt Lt D Blackmore. Fg D Faulke, Flt Lt Roper, Flt Lt J Ross, Flt Lt J Chapman
Hills of St Coln (as titled in the Bomber Command FS Magazine) - they grazed the mist-shrouded saddle between two peaks 50 Sqn

XH535 11/05/1964
Flt Lt J Dingly, Flt Lt F Young, Flt Lt Chilton, MSig Christian AFM (Pilots ejected and survived Co Flt Lt R Beeson)
A&AEE Andover - super stall from FL400 IIRC

XA909 16/07/1964
Rear crew abandoned at 3000 feet then pilots ejected.
Five out over Valley (as titled in the Bomber Command FS Magazine) Over Wales after engine explosion 101 Sqn

XM601 07/10/1964
Wg Cdr K Baker (OC IX Sqn) Fg Off P Busfield, Flt Lt C Burkard, Flt Lt G Bingham, Fg Off A Jones
Coningsby on asymmetric overshot and aircraft span in - lack of rudder authority IX Sqn

XM576 25/05/1965
Loss of control on landing, minor injuries including an NCO on the ground.
Scampton 83 Sqn

XH536 11/02/1966
Flt Lt J MacDonald, Fg Off G Sutcliffe, Flt Lt B Waring, Flt Lt R Clare, Flt Lt G Fuller
Grazed high ground on low level in Wales. IX Sqn

XH556 18/04/1966
Undercarriage collapsed
Finningley 230 OCU

XL385 06/04/1967
Engine fire - no casualties
Scampton on take-off

XM604 30/01/1968
Flt Lt A Bennett, Flt Lt S Sumpter, Flt Lt B Goodman, Fg Off M Whelan (Pilots ejected believing rear crew to be out Flt Lt P Tait, Fg Off M Gillette)
I believe the captain knew the rear crew were still onboard and ejected technically too late. His chute caught on power cables and he survived. He had been advised to burn off fuel to normal max landing weight whereas he could have landed immediately. IX Sqn

XM610 08/01/1971
Caught fire in the air - crew abandoned and survived, Pilot FLt Lt G Alcock awarded AFC
Engine exploded over Northumberland 44 Sqn

XL384 12/08/1971
Heavy landing
Scampton 230 OCU

XJ781 23/05/1973
Undercarriage failed to lower, belly landing
Shiraz, port undercarriage, crew plus Iranian observer evacuated IX Sqn

XM645 14/10/1975
Sqn Ldr D Beeden, Flt Lt E Lambert, Flt Lt G Pulman, CT T Barrow, Sgt J Atkins. Mrs V Zammit killed by falling wreckage. Pilots ejected Flt Lt G Alcock AFC (see XH646), Flt Lt E Alexander
Malta IX Sqn

XM600 17/01/1977
Abandoned following serious engine fire - Pilots Flt Lt R Aspinall, Flt A Ryder and 3 rear crew escaped safely
Near Coningsby Giant Voice

XL390 11/08/1978
Flt Lt C Edwards, Flt Lt S Farlow, Flt J Hamilton, Flt Lt N Thomas
Glenview NAS display practice 617 Sqn

XL361 13/11/1981
Damaged beyond repair
Goose Bay, hangar floor collapsed as aircraft being towed out 35 Sqn

[Brian 48nav]

Excuse me guys butting in on this thread.

When I was at LHR as an ATCO we had a Thames Radar controller who was an exCanberra nav in Cyprus and then Vulcans. He took his 12 yr option about 1972. He shares a name with a famous dambuster.
Allegedly he had been thinking about joining the USAF, and while on a Lone Ranger which stopped at Guam, blagged his way on to a BUFF which did a raid on North Vietnam. All allegedly of course!

My Flt Cdr at S Cerney, (Dec65-Apr66), one Flt Lt Mike Smith, I believe was the first skipper to get the rear crew out of a Vulcan. Near Anglesey IIRC.

I remember Simon Farlow as a copilot on an Argosy Course in '67.Later killed in '78 in a VUlcan.

When I was at Nav School I think one of the students on a course ahead of me, 82 or 83?, was the son of the Victor captain killed at Cottesmore in '66.

[Pontius Navigator]

Brian, XA909 above would have been Mike Smith's aircraft and as you say the first clean bailout. There was an extraordinary amount of additional equipment and stores onboard. Rumour had that there was even a small two-door cabinet

Care to PM me with the name of the Canberra/Vulcan nav. I think he was also the relief nav rad on our op deployment to Gan when one of the nav rads broke both wrists. We were gobsmacked when he arrived with one arm in a sling. I think he then did a tour at Waddo as wpns trg officer. he had also been a nav on 85 Sqn but didn't get any flying that tour.

[Whopity]

Having lived near Wittering when the first V Bombers arrived, I had been aware of a number of accidents in the early days but did not realise the list was so extensive. A colleague of my father's who lived at Barnack just 2 miles from the end of the runway, had two V bombers crash very close to his house. XM714 the second of these aircraft was carrying a jump seat passenger, M Nav Stringer whose son was in my class at school at the time. I also recall Mike Smith at South Cerney and some years later my AEO's twin brother Pete Slatter perished in XH618. Two of my initial instructors also died in the XM645 and XL230 accidents. In terms of proportions I wonder how The V-force figures compare with the Star Fighter that was so maligned.

[814man]

Slight thread drift!
I recall an incident when I was but a young SAC acting Cpl (unpaid unloved etc) doing my time on the SSA at Waddington when a Vulcan ran off the end of the runway near to the A15. I recall from my viewpoint on top of a D Building seeing fire and smoke from the undercarriage and the crew made a hasty exit running smartly away from aircraft as fire crew arrived quickly to put out flames. I seem to recall that the aircraft ended up quite close to the boundary fence and caused a few second glances from passing motorists on the A15. I also seem to think it took a few days to move it. I’m sure there must be some photos somewhere.
This must have happened between late 79 and Feb 82 but I would guess late summer 81.
An added factor was that the incident occurred in the middle of the major annual security exercise, which may explain the very quick arrival of the fire crews as I think they, and most of the station resources, were massing on Bravo dispersal to come and rescue us in the SSA!
I don’t know if this happened at the end of a landing or at an aborted take off but sure someone will.
Just note that some of my memories of the above may have been adversely affected by levels of alcohol intake during subsequent 10 years in RAFG!

[HTB]

814

It may have been an enthusiastic co-pilot carrying out post-maintenance taxy runs - if memory serves, he got a bit fast on a couple of runs and warmed up the brakes to the point where their effectiveness was much reduced. If it is that incident, I think he also used the callsign "Roadrunner", but this may just be apocryphal embellishment.

Mister B

[goudie]

*XH497 03/07/1958

I, along with others, was standing outside the 'gin palace' when XH497 made a perfect landing, amid a shower of sparks from the nose oleo. The relief we all felt when it stopped safely, with the pilots making a sharp exit, was tempered by sadness, when we heard that the nav. had been killed.

[BEagle]

814man / HTB - it was indeed the 'Roadrunner One' incident.

As recounted to me by a colleague, it seems that a Vulcan had been snagged for nosewheel vibration / shimmy and had been duly rectified. The squadron gingerbeers asked for a taxy check....

An enthusiastic ICC-qualified co-piglet readily agreed and collared an unsuspecting AEO to assist. They started up and requested taxy as 'Roadrunner 1'. There was no duty aircrew officer in the tower as no Vulcans were within 100 miles of Waddington at the time and the rules only required a DAO to be present if there were.

The tower cleared them for their taxy check and they subsequently roared off down RW21 at a goodly pace. "Nosewheel's fine", announce our hero. But then he decided to do a second check 'just to be certain'. So back they came along RW03...downwind...with already pretty warm brakes....

Again no snag with the nosewheel, but braking from a second fast taxy run was too much for the brakes, which duly caught fire. The Vulcan trundled off the end of the RW, stopping just short of the A15.

Whilst the genuine enthusiasm of the co-piglet probably exceeded his experience level, there were lots of other factors which led to the incident and he wasn't wholly to be blamed. There were no real rules in place for 'taxy checks', no requirements for any authorisation or supervision and the absence of a DAO (who would have queried the crew's intention) was the final link in the chain.

Even though such maintenance requirements were later regulated properly, a number of events still occurred during the next 2 decades when crews who were not trained for air tests carried out some 'partial air check' or other - but in many fleets the decision was ultimately taken that only qualified air test pilots would conduct any form of air test. Which seems sensible to me.

Incidentally, PN, the VX770 accident was at Syerston, not Swinderby.

[Pontius Navigator]

TY BEagle, duly amended.

May be you can remind me, and everyone else, about brake checks. After a hot landing a crew member was often sent outside to do a hot brakes and tyre check. One problem having stopped with hot brakes was their potential for cooking. If the aircraft was instead kept taxiing without further braking they could actually cool more quickly (correct?).

Anyway, went sent out to do the check we had to approach the wheels with caution as there was a potential for explosion. Now I cannot remember near 40 years later whether we were to approach fore-aft in case the wheel blew out or port/starboard in case the tyre blew out.

So, which was it?

[Wander00]

My ancient brain says "fore and aft", but then I might be incorrect!

[The Oberon]

Definitely fore and aft, as the wheel castings would explode sideways. In addition, if the brakes do ignite, only use a dry powder extinguisher to prevent rapid cooling and even more chance of explosion.

[Pontius Navigator]

TY, that was my first thought and of course the blue extinguisher which of course would not have been to hand in the scenario I was thinking of.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Whopity

In terms of proportions I wonder how The V-force figures compare with the Star Fighter that was so maligned.

There were 135 Vulcans built including the two development aircraft. Not all entered RAF Service for instance XM596 was taken off the production line and used as a fatigue test vehicle.

Of the 134 aircraft the list above has 22 aircraft or a loss over the 30 years of 16.41%.

There were 6 accidents with no survivors and 5 where some of the crew escaped. There were 11 where there were no fatalities. This is 4.4%, 3.7% and 8.2%. If we discount loss of test bed aircraft the losses were 4, 5 and 10.

Looking at the 4 where there were no survivors, one was a technical cause, 2 were CFIT and one was pilot error. Of the other 5 part fatals, 2 were landing accidents, 2 were catastrophic technical causes and the 3rd was also technical.

Looking at the F104 it looks at first glance that the Vulcan fared much better. There was one quirk in the stats however 3 successive crashes were on IX sqn with a total of 5 out of 19 crashes.

[sisemen]

What was the number of the Vulcan of 230 OCU that landed wheels up at Finningley in 64-65?

............

Spectre 150 - pm on its way to you.

[Fareastdriver]

I was in a ‘Brake Check Incident’ when I was seven.

My father was a pilot on 202 Squadron flying Met. Rec. Halifaxs out of Aldergrove. Our family lived in a converted wooden building between the officer’s mess and the perimeter track; now a car park. One day my father had to do a brake bedding on a Halifax so he took me along. (Shock Horror from today’s Elfin Safety)
I was sat in the nose blister and my father, solo, started it up and we taxied onto the easterly runway. Up and down that one and then up the southerly runway. The final run was in the northerly direction and we passed the intersection still with a fair amount of speed on. This was, apparently, where the brakes went AWOL. There is not a lot of tarmac left so my father gunned both starboard engines and it swung off the runway towards the 202 Sqn dispersal in the north western corner. The spectacles were empty though I remember the odd fire extinguisher passing underneath my seat. All, including the engines, came to a halt and then what happened my father and I never agreed on for the rest of his life.
He said that he led me out through the exit and down to the ground. I remember sitting there and then this chap in an asbestos suit saw me and pulled me out.
Nobody seemed particularly worried about me being there. I certainly did it a couple of times again.

[Wander00]

Siseman - Was that the one when Eric Fell was the QFI. If so he was our QFI on 360 when it formed. Great guy - learned a lot from him.

[ACW418]

Vulcan Incidents/Accidents

The fatal accident on 7/10/64 was captained by Wg Cdr Baker who was OC 9 Sqn (not 12 as stated). He took our aircraft as his had gone u/s as I recall.

The wheels up landing at Finningley was captained by John Stannard as he was posted to a Squadron after it and was on the same nuclear weapons course at Wittering as me. As he had been my instructor on the OCU this was a bit awkward. The co-pilot was from 9 Sqn on his ICC.

ACW

[Pontius Navigator]

ACW, good spot, I missed that. Of course Bob Tanner was OC 12 at the time but I was out in the Far East with him then. The Nav Rad on the crew had been with me on 41 Nav course. Almost all that course had been back-coursed to 42 as too many u/t navs were getting through to 1 ANS and they needed to relieve the pressure. He got to Coningsby a month ahead of me - there but for the grace of God . . .

[Tankertrashnav]

Whopity - as usual a V Force thread is turning into a Vulcan thread
() so perhaps I'd better answer your question fully and include percentages for Valiant and Victor losses. As far as I can tell the figures are 9.35% and 13.75% respectively. The Valiant of course only had a service life of around ten years.

Difficult to compare with the F104 - a case of apples and pears really. Do you include combat losses in Vietnam? Do you concentrate on the F104G operated by the Germans - an aircraft not really suited to the role of low level flying in Northern European weather conditions? Whichever way you look at it, though, I'm pretty sure the Starfighter had a much higher percentage of losses than any of the V 's.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, not intentional just I happen to have both the facts and the time