Service Pride?
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'JagMate' - maybe the real reason is in the user ID....!
We have got a very good friend who is so inclined - although you would not guess. He takes my homophobic jokes by retaliating with comments about my being follicularly challenged - now that is not funny
Thread Starter
For me, I'm with the just get on with it Brigade. It is the individual's private life and this should be nobody's business but their own. This is why I was interested to find out from those who have and continue to serve, where they generally stand, because while accepting all comers, who meet the operational criteria, I still don't believe it is in the interests of service prestige to go to such lengths to try and identify any of the fighting arms with such an extrovert representation of sexual/cultural thinking. I know I 'd drop dead from shame if my own quirkiness between the sheets were to be thrust into the public domain and I wouldn't be marching about on the streets to highlight it either. Especially if I still wore the Queen's uniform!
Agreed , F-B
I have never understood how it is possible to be proud of things which are accidents of birth. I am English, white, male and heterosexual - that is nothing to be proud of, because I had no decision in the matter. Not being ashamed of it, of course, is an entirely different matter, and I am certainly not. I have a number of homosexual friends all of whom look with distaste on the antics of participants in Gay Pride marches, etc. They regard their homosexuality as their own affair and not something to be shouted about.
To be fair, I am equally bored with the constant references to individual (hetero) sexual prowess, real or imagined, posted in various threads on here
I have never understood how it is possible to be proud of things which are accidents of birth. I am English, white, male and heterosexual - that is nothing to be proud of, because I had no decision in the matter. Not being ashamed of it, of course, is an entirely different matter, and I am certainly not. I have a number of homosexual friends all of whom look with distaste on the antics of participants in Gay Pride marches, etc. They regard their homosexuality as their own affair and not something to be shouted about.
To be fair, I am equally bored with the constant references to individual (hetero) sexual prowess, real or imagined, posted in various threads on here
Thread Starter
Indeed TKTS Sir,
If Monty Python were still on the go, they'd have trouble with putting together a parody of the services which would stand out these days.
FB
If Monty Python were still on the go, they'd have trouble with putting together a parody of the services which would stand out these days.
FB
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Hand on heart, we must have all seen Jagmates post coming, but I was equally suprised when he slipped it in.
Strange world .......... suddenly there are countless numbers of homosexuals around in all walks of life.
At my Grammar School, with a permanent population of 600 boys, 100 of which left and were replaced each year, there was only ONE to my knowledge who was that way inclined; in 41 years in the Met.Office [night shifts, many detachments, courses, etc etc], only ONE of the 3000 or so was known to bat for t'others.
So, where did they all spring from?
Buggered if I know.
At my Grammar School, with a permanent population of 600 boys, 100 of which left and were replaced each year, there was only ONE to my knowledge who was that way inclined; in 41 years in the Met.Office [night shifts, many detachments, courses, etc etc], only ONE of the 3000 or so was known to bat for t'others.
So, where did they all spring from?
Buggered if I know.
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Only one I knew at my school was involved in a court case involving adults in the Carlisle City's men's toilets, but he was blatently obvious... I would bet the percentages were far greater than you thought, they just chose to keep it quiet.
An old friend from school revealed to me years later he was batting for the other side, and I would never have guessed, he used to come on the pull with the rest of us. Similarly you wouldn't have guessed what Max Mosely got up to would you.
Surprised about the two Jag pilots though, most of ours had trouble getting the NAVWASS up, let alone anything else..
An old friend from school revealed to me years later he was batting for the other side, and I would never have guessed, he used to come on the pull with the rest of us. Similarly you wouldn't have guessed what Max Mosely got up to would you.
Surprised about the two Jag pilots though, most of ours had trouble getting the NAVWASS up, let alone anything else..
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When i joined up, anyone who " came out " was swiftly out the door. Remember, if, or when, the Gays are 51% of the population us straight blokes will be the "gays"...........
Thread Starter
When I was awaiting the next scopie course at West Drayton I was, not surprisingly, sent to join the SWO's Commando elite. There was a large Blonde haired character with a touch of the Dale Winton's about him, but I never thought anything more about. This bloke seemed utterly untroubled, apart from one afternoon when he was sat on his own staring into the middle distance as I returned from lunch, he asked quietly if I wanted a coffee.
Afterwards I was upstairs printing of a set of orders when a clerk from the General Office turned up and helpfully offered to print off my work load so he could get on with his all the quicker. No sooner had he got started than he said to me in a stern tone, whatever you do, keep away from that a******e downstairs. He then proceeded to list a damning catalogue of what were then serious crimes against QRs and involving a number of other young gentlemen, for which the chap was awaiting Court Martial. He got the expected 6 months in Colchester.
How times have changed.
FB
Afterwards I was upstairs printing of a set of orders when a clerk from the General Office turned up and helpfully offered to print off my work load so he could get on with his all the quicker. No sooner had he got started than he said to me in a stern tone, whatever you do, keep away from that a******e downstairs. He then proceeded to list a damning catalogue of what were then serious crimes against QRs and involving a number of other young gentlemen, for which the chap was awaiting Court Martial. He got the expected 6 months in Colchester.
How times have changed.
FB
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I wonder if he could now sue them?
Our room leader at Swinditz in 76 caught two young lads (weren't we all) from one of the other rooms in the block lounge, he refused to tell us who they were, saying they were probably just home sick and deserved the same chance that we had of making a go of the RAF, (it was a time where there were about 60 applicants for each place).... we all agreed.
Our room leader at Swinditz in 76 caught two young lads (weren't we all) from one of the other rooms in the block lounge, he refused to tell us who they were, saying they were probably just home sick and deserved the same chance that we had of making a go of the RAF, (it was a time where there were about 60 applicants for each place).... we all agreed.
I was in the 'it was against the rules, so nobody was' camp.
And then I left the RAF.. Within a month I met my first openly gay civilian colleague - I then worked with a Transexual. Once I got over the thought I wasnt going to get a good seeing to, and not only that they probably didnt fancy me anyway, I was alright. In fact whilst looking for Paul Richey's 'Beautiful women of Metz' some years later, having not found any women, spent the night in a bar with Gallic Gay contingent. Must have changed since Paul was there.
But believe it or not, the thing I had the most problem with was working with Irish engineers. I was continually looking for signs that they were terrorists..
And then I left the RAF.. Within a month I met my first openly gay civilian colleague - I then worked with a Transexual. Once I got over the thought I wasnt going to get a good seeing to, and not only that they probably didnt fancy me anyway, I was alright. In fact whilst looking for Paul Richey's 'Beautiful women of Metz' some years later, having not found any women, spent the night in a bar with Gallic Gay contingent. Must have changed since Paul was there.
But believe it or not, the thing I had the most problem with was working with Irish engineers. I was continually looking for signs that they were terrorists..
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Sled dog
<<when, the Gays are 51% of the population us straight blokes will be the "gays". >>
A moot point if ever there was one – there are other cultural groups in the UK now that have been productively using their joysticks as nature intended and when they are in the majority they may not be as tolerant of cultural collapse as we have been.
<<when, the Gays are 51% of the population us straight blokes will be the "gays". >>
A moot point if ever there was one – there are other cultural groups in the UK now that have been productively using their joysticks as nature intended and when they are in the majority they may not be as tolerant of cultural collapse as we have been.
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Reflections of the past!!
Don't know who wrote this, but it is so sadly true!!
Remember when???..................read on about the new and improved military!
We used to go to the Officers Club or NCO Club Stag Bar on Friday afternoons to drink, smoke and swap lies with our comrades. Think about this when you read the rest of the letter below. What happened to our Air Force/Marines/Army/Navy............. (orMilitary)? Drinking then became frowned on. Smoking caused cancer and could "harm you." Stag bars became seen as 'sexist'. Gradually, our men quit patronizing their clubs because what happened in the club became fodder for a performance report. It was the same thing at the Airman's Club and the NCO and/or Top 3 clubs. Now we don't have separate clubs for the ranks. Instead we have something called All Ranks Clubs or community clubs. They're open to men and women of all ranks....from airman basic to general officer. Still, no one is there. Gee, I wonder why. The latest brilliant thought out of Washington is that the operators ("pilots?") flying remote aircraft in combat areas from their plush desk at duty stations in Nevada or Arizona should draw the same combat pay as those real world pilots actually on board a plane in a hostile environment. Morepolitically correct logic? They say that remote vehicle operators are subject to the same stress levels as the combat pilot actually flying in combat. ----- REALLY...you'rebull-****ting me, right !!!??? Now that I've primed you a little, read on. There are many who will agree with these sentiments, but they apply to more than just fighter pilots. Unfortunately, the ones with the guts to speak up or push for what they believe in are beaten down by the "system." "Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in the following text - supposedly, Secretary Gates hada force beating the bushes to learn who wrote this.... Where have all the fighter pilots gone? Good Question. Here is a rant from a retired fighter pilot that is worth reading: It is rumored that our current Secretary of Defense recently askedthe question, "Where are all the dynamic leaders of the past?" I canonly assume, if that is true, that he was referring to RobinOlds, Jimmy Doolittle, Patton, Ike, Boyington, Nimitz, etc.? Well, I've got the answer: They were fired before they made Major! Our nation doesn't want those kinds of leaders anymore. Squadron commanders don't run squadrons and wing commanders don't run wings. They are managed by higher ranking dildos with other esoteric goals in mind. Can you imagine someone today looking for a LEADER to execute that Doolittle Raid and suggesting that it be given to a dare-devil boozer - his onlyattributes: he had the respect of his men, an awesome ability to fly, and the organizational skills to put it all together? If someone told me there was a chance in hell of selecting that man today, I would tell them they were either a liar or dumber than ****. I find it ironic that the Air Force put Brigadier General Robin Olds on the cover of the company rag last month. While it made me extremely proud to see his face, he wouldn't makeit across any base in America (or overseas) without ten enlisted folks telling him to zip up his flight suit, get rid of the cigarette, and shave his mustache off. I have a feeling that his response would be predictable and for that crime he would probably get a trip home and an Article 15. We have lost the war on rugged individualism and that, unfortunately, is what fighter pilots want to follow; not because they have to but because they respect leaders of that ilk. We've all run across that leader that made us proud to follow him because you wanted to be like him and make a difference. The individual who you would drag your testicles through glass for rather than disappoint him. We better wake the hell up! We're asking our young men and women to go to really ****ty places; some with unbearable climates, never have a drink, have little or no contact with the opposite sex, not look at magazines of asuggestive nature of any type, and adhere to ridiculous regs that require you to tuck your shirt into your PT uniform on the way to the porta-****ter at night, in a blinding dust storm, because it's a uniform. These people we're sending to combat are some of the brightest I've met but they are looking for a little sanity, which they will only find on the outside if we don't get a friggin' clue. You can't continue asking people to live for months or years at a time acting like nuns and priests. Hell, even they get to have a beer. Who are we afraid of offending? The guys that already hate us enough to strap C-4 to their own bodies and walk into a crowd of us? Think about it.I'm extremely proud of our young men and women who continue to serve. I'm also very in tune with what they are considering for the future and I've got news for whoever sits in the White House, Congress, and our so-called military leaders. Much talent has and will continue to hemorrhage from our services, because wanna-be warriors are tired of fighting on two fronts - - one with our enemies, another against our lack of common sense.
Remember when???..................read on about the new and improved military!
We used to go to the Officers Club or NCO Club Stag Bar on Friday afternoons to drink, smoke and swap lies with our comrades. Think about this when you read the rest of the letter below. What happened to our Air Force/Marines/Army/Navy............. (orMilitary)? Drinking then became frowned on. Smoking caused cancer and could "harm you." Stag bars became seen as 'sexist'. Gradually, our men quit patronizing their clubs because what happened in the club became fodder for a performance report. It was the same thing at the Airman's Club and the NCO and/or Top 3 clubs. Now we don't have separate clubs for the ranks. Instead we have something called All Ranks Clubs or community clubs. They're open to men and women of all ranks....from airman basic to general officer. Still, no one is there. Gee, I wonder why. The latest brilliant thought out of Washington is that the operators ("pilots?") flying remote aircraft in combat areas from their plush desk at duty stations in Nevada or Arizona should draw the same combat pay as those real world pilots actually on board a plane in a hostile environment. Morepolitically correct logic? They say that remote vehicle operators are subject to the same stress levels as the combat pilot actually flying in combat. ----- REALLY...you'rebull-****ting me, right !!!??? Now that I've primed you a little, read on. There are many who will agree with these sentiments, but they apply to more than just fighter pilots. Unfortunately, the ones with the guts to speak up or push for what they believe in are beaten down by the "system." "Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in the following text - supposedly, Secretary Gates hada force beating the bushes to learn who wrote this.... Where have all the fighter pilots gone? Good Question. Here is a rant from a retired fighter pilot that is worth reading: It is rumored that our current Secretary of Defense recently askedthe question, "Where are all the dynamic leaders of the past?" I canonly assume, if that is true, that he was referring to RobinOlds, Jimmy Doolittle, Patton, Ike, Boyington, Nimitz, etc.? Well, I've got the answer: They were fired before they made Major! Our nation doesn't want those kinds of leaders anymore. Squadron commanders don't run squadrons and wing commanders don't run wings. They are managed by higher ranking dildos with other esoteric goals in mind. Can you imagine someone today looking for a LEADER to execute that Doolittle Raid and suggesting that it be given to a dare-devil boozer - his onlyattributes: he had the respect of his men, an awesome ability to fly, and the organizational skills to put it all together? If someone told me there was a chance in hell of selecting that man today, I would tell them they were either a liar or dumber than ****. I find it ironic that the Air Force put Brigadier General Robin Olds on the cover of the company rag last month. While it made me extremely proud to see his face, he wouldn't makeit across any base in America (or overseas) without ten enlisted folks telling him to zip up his flight suit, get rid of the cigarette, and shave his mustache off. I have a feeling that his response would be predictable and for that crime he would probably get a trip home and an Article 15. We have lost the war on rugged individualism and that, unfortunately, is what fighter pilots want to follow; not because they have to but because they respect leaders of that ilk. We've all run across that leader that made us proud to follow him because you wanted to be like him and make a difference. The individual who you would drag your testicles through glass for rather than disappoint him. We better wake the hell up! We're asking our young men and women to go to really ****ty places; some with unbearable climates, never have a drink, have little or no contact with the opposite sex, not look at magazines of asuggestive nature of any type, and adhere to ridiculous regs that require you to tuck your shirt into your PT uniform on the way to the porta-****ter at night, in a blinding dust storm, because it's a uniform. These people we're sending to combat are some of the brightest I've met but they are looking for a little sanity, which they will only find on the outside if we don't get a friggin' clue. You can't continue asking people to live for months or years at a time acting like nuns and priests. Hell, even they get to have a beer. Who are we afraid of offending? The guys that already hate us enough to strap C-4 to their own bodies and walk into a crowd of us? Think about it.I'm extremely proud of our young men and women who continue to serve. I'm also very in tune with what they are considering for the future and I've got news for whoever sits in the White House, Congress, and our so-called military leaders. Much talent has and will continue to hemorrhage from our services, because wanna-be warriors are tired of fighting on two fronts - - one with our enemies, another against our lack of common sense.
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Blaireau
part of your quote was:
<<Much talent has and will continue to hemorrhage from our services, because wanna-be warriors are tired of fighting on two fronts - - one with our enemies, another against our lack of common sense >>
Perhaps the services should reflect on who the real enemies are of the people that the services are supposed to be protecting?
part of your quote was:
<<Much talent has and will continue to hemorrhage from our services, because wanna-be warriors are tired of fighting on two fronts - - one with our enemies, another against our lack of common sense >>
Perhaps the services should reflect on who the real enemies are of the people that the services are supposed to be protecting?
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Walter K.
Perhaps, yes.
But as I was told very early on in my career, we are here to protect democracy, not reflect democracy.
Would you rather have a 100% representative armed force including all the differing groups of all the lovely diverse types of people, in all their cuddly aspects, which were inefficient in it's one and only primary role, but fulfilled all the equality/diversity criteria in today's PC world.....
Or would you prefer the slightly unpolitically correct bunch of rabble that may employ dodgy humour and, occasionally, dodgy practices that the general populace really don't need to know about - but win your country's battles when called upon to do so? You know, the 'scum of the earth' that have served so well in the past? The ones that have historically won the battles? That stuff?
I think 95% of those serving are a bit bored of being told how diversity is a priority, not war fighting. The young men (and it mostly is young men who join and stay for a career) don't really care about the PC aspects of the world in their service career. They won't tell you that; if they do they will be disciplined or worse. They have to tolerate it. They joined for the adventure and to feel they were the best and contributing to a proud tradition. Or maybe they just like a drink and a fight. Either is good.
Anyway, what's more important to you? Or anyone else for that matter? Why are we putting women on board the 4 uk nuclear deterrent submarines? Efficiency? Don't make me laugh. It will be anything but that, but it will be made to work however inefficient, expensive and operationally unnecessary. It looks good.
.........Yeap. That should stir it up a bit. Let's have you then.
Perhaps, yes.
But as I was told very early on in my career, we are here to protect democracy, not reflect democracy.
Would you rather have a 100% representative armed force including all the differing groups of all the lovely diverse types of people, in all their cuddly aspects, which were inefficient in it's one and only primary role, but fulfilled all the equality/diversity criteria in today's PC world.....
Or would you prefer the slightly unpolitically correct bunch of rabble that may employ dodgy humour and, occasionally, dodgy practices that the general populace really don't need to know about - but win your country's battles when called upon to do so? You know, the 'scum of the earth' that have served so well in the past? The ones that have historically won the battles? That stuff?
I think 95% of those serving are a bit bored of being told how diversity is a priority, not war fighting. The young men (and it mostly is young men who join and stay for a career) don't really care about the PC aspects of the world in their service career. They won't tell you that; if they do they will be disciplined or worse. They have to tolerate it. They joined for the adventure and to feel they were the best and contributing to a proud tradition. Or maybe they just like a drink and a fight. Either is good.
Anyway, what's more important to you? Or anyone else for that matter? Why are we putting women on board the 4 uk nuclear deterrent submarines? Efficiency? Don't make me laugh. It will be anything but that, but it will be made to work however inefficient, expensive and operationally unnecessary. It looks good.
.........Yeap. That should stir it up a bit. Let's have you then.
I had exactly the same views as Scuttled as an immature 16 yr old many tears ago. They have changed in the intervening years. He does make what I believe to be a very valid point re women in confined spaces; that will undoubtedly alter the way HMs boats are operated. As for the integration of all the differing sexual preferences I, for one, think you are way off the mark. The biggest problem is likely to be caused by VSOs trying to be modern and building their E&D CV for the job after they have no future service appointment with these silly celebrations, and given the current and future manpower pressures it is time poorly used..
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"Would you rather have a 100% representative armed force including all the differing groups of all the lovely diverse types of people, in all their cuddly aspects, which were inefficient in it's one and only primary role, but fulfilled all the equality/diversity criteria in today's PC world....."
Which to me clearly suggests way more than just sexual orientation and is more of a tongue in cheek pop at how the service could look if we religiously followed every single PC pathway.