Puma Crash Sentence
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 441
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by TorqueOfTheDevil
I'm not prepared to flout the training rules & regs without very good justification.
Regarding "train hard fight easy" I've always considered sorties with people of greater experience than me to be the opportunity to push my own boundaries. At the time I was a junior mate a report wasn't generated for every sortie with a QHI/TC, and I wonder if the culture nowadays which requires writeups for just about every sortie with a QHI/TC (in order to bulk out the paper trail for the BOI
) means that sorties with senior fliers are viewed as potential chop rides. This would encourage the junior mates fly well inside their limits on those sorties and only stretch themselves when flying with each other. If so, that's bass-ackwards to me.
Originally Posted by Caz
The answer was 764
Oh, yeah. I forgot about the birdstrikes I had in a Hawk, a Phantom (x2, one on the ground, honestly) and an F3. Again, the birds lost the bet, but I think the jets survived OK. I still duck in my car when a bird comes at me. Strange conditioning we all have. That would be an interesting thread.
I might have been with QHIs because I was useless
Happy New Year to one and all, and may the banter flow freely in 2012!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France 46
Age: 77
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Courtney
Xmas 1979 Op Corporate
Flying our VIP Andover at "Not above 100 Feet" at 5000+ Feet AMSL (OAT +30 C) full of "VIP's" when we met a very large flock of extremely large birds who were determined to protect their "Airspace". That was a very interesting 15 minutes!!!
Xmas 1979 Op Corporate
Flying our VIP Andover at "Not above 100 Feet" at 5000+ Feet AMSL (OAT +30 C) full of "VIP's" when we met a very large flock of extremely large birds who were determined to protect their "Airspace". That was a very interesting 15 minutes!!!
Caz
Genuine question ...
Did Op Corporate mean something else prior to the 1982 fisticuffs in the South Atlantic or was it also the contingency codeword for an op to recover the FI?
Genuine question ...
Xmas 1979 Op Corporate
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
About 4 years later the FO was still in place but the law of unintended consequences was coming to fruition and the FO precaution was leading to increasingly high and increasingly costly mechanical failures.
I managed to find the signal paper trail of 4 years previous and set out the train of events. After the FO had been issued there had been NO follow up staff work to identify or quantify the potential risk of repetition. Fortunately I got on well with the appropriate staff officer at Group and he was prepared to cancel the FO.
It is however always easier to say NO than to say YES and even easier to not change the NO.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,598
Received 455 Likes
on
241 Posts
Xmas 1979 Op Corporate
Op Agila, maybe?
Gentleman Aviator
And speaking of Op AGILA .....
.... two quotes (without comment) from Flight magazine on the Puma crash of December '79 on the Kotwa Road...
.... two quotes (without comment) from Flight magazine on the Puma crash of December '79 on the Kotwa Road...
The crash investigation team found that the Puma had hit a set of steel-covered telephone wires where they crossed the road at a height of 18'.
No evidence of either technical malfunction or hostile action could be found. As there were no survivors from the crew, it was not possible to determine why the Puma was flying so low.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,598
Received 455 Likes
on
241 Posts
The Puma hit those 18' high wires with its rotor mast. The rotor mast of a Puma is approximately 16' up. We lost Archie Cook, Mike Smith and Bob Hodges.
A C130 had suffered small arms damage the previous day.
A C130 had suffered small arms damage the previous day.
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/9E13E...a_za934_si.pdf
At least it acknowledges the Op pressure the Sqn and the Puma Force was under!
At least it acknowledges the Op pressure the Sqn and the Puma Force was under!
At least it acknowledges the Op pressure the Sqn and the Puma Force was under!
It is interesting that both this SI and the Strategic Review of the Puma Helicopter Force (available via Google) acknowledge the Op pressure that the Sqn was under and describe the lengths to which the Sqn brought the issues to the attention of JHC who apparently did nothing. It’s almost as if the top end of JHC were in some sort of denial about what the Puma Force was doing! If ever there was a reason for never, under any circumstances, transferring the SH Force to Army, this whole sorry episode would seem to be it!
Apart from JHC was being run by a Rear-Admiral. And frankly, I suspect that UKSF Group didn't really care if the Puma force were being 'run hot'. If the Puma Force were that concerned I've no doubt they would've gone to CAS or one of his 3*s.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Desert mainly, occasionally arctic and rarely jungle
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
X dude: JHC, head in the sand, never!
You'll be telling me that bears poop in the woods next.
To this day it does seem very odd to me that for all of the reviews, studies or BOIs / SIs that have been conducted in connection with BH incidents not one seems to have scrutinised JHC in any great depth.
You'll be telling me that bears poop in the woods next.
To this day it does seem very odd to me that for all of the reviews, studies or BOIs / SIs that have been conducted in connection with BH incidents not one seems to have scrutinised JHC in any great depth.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Desert mainly, occasionally arctic and rarely jungle
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alf. JHC was defo commanded by a Pongo 2*, Maj Gen Gary Coward at the time of these incidents; TJB just dealt with the fall out!
My mistake. Still stands, CAS had, and continues to have, Full Command of Puma Force. If the RAF cared that much, they would have done something about it.