Puma Crash Sentence
 

The last thread that brought this up was pulled. Please pull this one too.

I don't see why it should be pulled. It is of genuine military interest and as long as the comments stick to the rules, the thread itself is valid.

I think MG is right.

The topic remains of interest to many on this forum, let's just please recognise the sensitivity of the subject and be respectful of all effected by it.

Sun.

I have my views, but the point of the thread is . . . ?

like the point of many threads, it tells us what's going on.

PN, I suppose you're right in that, once the link to the news of the sentence is given, any further discussion is probably unnecessary and invariably inflammatory. If it can be kept respectful and constructive, then carry on. I fear that will be difficult to maintain!

If comment is appropriate, I can't see a problem. Sometimes, web threads cover subjects that are less palatable than others.


Edited to add;

"PN, I suppose you're right in that, once the link to the news of the sentence is given, any further discussion is probably unnecessary and invariably inflammatory. If it can be kept respectful and constructive, then carry on. I fear that will be difficult to maintain!"

If that's the case, the thread/s concerning the Mull of Kintyre Chinook crash would also have been locked early.

Drawing comparisons will certainly encourage the thread to degenerate, let's try to avoid that, shall we?

Pontius et al
 

Far East,

The fact that a member of military aircrew is sentenced to prison (suspended or otherwise) makes the thread valid. The right sympathy etc needs to be observed to those bereaved and injured but as this was one of the worst errors committed by mil aircrew in recent times means there are lessons to be learned by other aircrew.

Discuss on...

For the answer to that to be 'no', I would theorise that his protestations would need to be on the tape. He wouldn't be able to do much more, would he?

CG

Apologies. Hadn't realised there had been a previous thread. Only posted as a news item, and not seeking comment. As with other incidents, it has happened, we learn (hopefully) and move on.

The fire axe isn't just for use _after_ a fire you know...:E

The information is in the public domain.

Leave it alone.

Crewmembers who are involved and deemed culpable do not have 'special rights' to anonymity. They deserve no special consideration at all - however sorry they might be.

Who knows, if they spoke up at the time there would be three less bereaved families this Christmas and each one since the accident.

Do I have sympathy - that'll be a NO then.

I think Standto had it right as a simple pointer to the Sky News item although it had been in the papers yesterday IIRC and was thus old news.

However the issue of collective responsibility is possibly worthy of discussion.

I can think of at least 4 instance, three where I was on the crew, where the Auth, also on board, had either condoned or instigated flying indiscipline or done nothing to counter it. The Auths were 3 sqn ldrs (one was the captain) and one was the sqn cdr but not acting as captain. In only one of the cases did we stop the captain (auth) from his course of action.

These were all before CRM was born.

PN,

"I can think of at least 4 instance, three where I was on the crew, where the Auth, also on board, had either condoned or instigated flying indiscipline or done nothing to counter it. The Auths were 3 sqn ldrs (one was the captain) and one was the sqn cdr but not acting as captain. In only one of the cases did we stop the captain (auth) from his course of action."

Were this to happen today, there would be a very swift and unpleasant end for those involved. The regular and deliberate collection of data by DASOR now means that the ability for individuals to "stretch the auth" and get away with it is very severely diminished (and quite right too) People are very aware of the fact that they will be culpable (RTS limitations, FOB rules and the Catterick crash spell that out clearly)

When there are junior aircrew; conducting complex tasks at the limit of their ability, the only room for the HQ is to regulate, to ameliorate any lack of experience.....thats what we see today.

You will find very controlled risk being taken in JHC, but no stomach for cowboys or a "**** me that was close, I learnt from that" attitude. In the case of the latter, if any blame can be laid as to why the near miss happened....then stand by if it is right "of the red line"!

I dont usually comment on air accidents but as a guy looking in from outwith the mil I feel compelled to say a few things...

Firstly - My heart goes out to those grieving families. It was a terrible and needless loss of life.

Secondly - That young fellow that survived, is wheelchaired, and just been through the judicial process and taken his conviction - While I cant condone HIS PART in this tradgedy, I feel that he has been through the mill and will be mentally tortured for life by his own part in a few moments of stupidity, How many of us have done stupid and potentialy fatal things? - avaiation related or not - and got away with it. This Fellow didnt get away with it and made his plea in court acccordingly. Had the Pilot survived I wonder if things would have been different?

The precidence that has been set will have far reaching consequence forevermore. The sentence being suspended means that it may be seen by some as lenient. That the individual is suffering his own sentence; however bad that is, should be set-aside. In the big picture of life, it will make people think twice before being reckless; or condoning it without question, in the future. For most; we can count our lucky stars that it is not us being discussed here today.

The whole affair is far from palatable, but I suspect much good will come from it. I only hope that there is no supervisory overswing that makes military flying lacking in capability.

Let me be the person to see the bright side in this...

If he doesn't fly an aircraft into the ground for the term of his suspended sentence then he's free and clear... Bonus :D