Remember Pearl Harbor
Remember Hong Kong too. 70 years today. Huge loss of life during and after the invasion. The rape and murder of civilians had it known as the "Taste of Nanjing".
One ladies sad story today. Her father was wounded and he an others bayoneted and set alight. He had grenades in his pocket and they cooked off killing the Japs too.
A lot of the Japanese who took part in the atrocities in HKG were killed at Guadalcanal. Many on troop ships at the hands of American airpower. Good ridens.
Daughter of HK's war | HK News Watch | Latest Hong Kong, China & World News | SCMP.com
One ladies sad story today. Her father was wounded and he an others bayoneted and set alight. He had grenades in his pocket and they cooked off killing the Japs too.
A lot of the Japanese who took part in the atrocities in HKG were killed at Guadalcanal. Many on troop ships at the hands of American airpower. Good ridens.
Daughter of HK's war | HK News Watch | Latest Hong Kong, China & World News | SCMP.com
I had a meeting with American colleagues yesterday and I happened to mention that 'why we were having this meeting was ultimately because of Pearl Harbour'. Theyn looked at me askance, but one of them came up to me later and agreed with my general premise.
Hong Kong - yes - largely overshadowed by Pearl Harbour in historiography, but the occupation was nothing less than brutal, primarily because of visceral hatred of the Chinese. A little-know fact was that the surrender of Hong Kong was taken by a RAF Flt Lt - of the Works Branch.
Hong Kong - yes - largely overshadowed by Pearl Harbour in historiography, but the occupation was nothing less than brutal, primarily because of visceral hatred of the Chinese. A little-know fact was that the surrender of Hong Kong was taken by a RAF Flt Lt - of the Works Branch.
Although a disaster on one level, without Pearl Harbour I suspect most of us on this side of the pond would have German as our 'mother tongue'.
However, let us not forget also that it was a Navy that refused to accept that Battleships could be sunk from the air - read the history of General Billy Mitchell and his demonstration (despite as much navy interference as possible) that proved it could be done - in 1921. Even in November 1941 the USN insisted, in the programme for the Army-Navy game, that " It is significant that despite the claims of air enthusiasts no battleship has yet been sunk by bombs." Even more surprising it was General Billy Mitchell that predicted the surprise attack on PH by the Japanese - in 1926!
As far as Hong Kong goes whilst many people think of it as a lost 'British' battle, it was also very much a Canadian one.
However, let us not forget also that it was a Navy that refused to accept that Battleships could be sunk from the air - read the history of General Billy Mitchell and his demonstration (despite as much navy interference as possible) that proved it could be done - in 1921. Even in November 1941 the USN insisted, in the programme for the Army-Navy game, that " It is significant that despite the claims of air enthusiasts no battleship has yet been sunk by bombs." Even more surprising it was General Billy Mitchell that predicted the surprise attack on PH by the Japanese - in 1926!
As far as Hong Kong goes whilst many people think of it as a lost 'British' battle, it was also very much a Canadian one.
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Absolutely,
The events of Pearl Harbor are a CLEAR DEMONSTRATION of the folly of retiring the Harrier / Carrier and the awesome strike power that they delivered.
The events of Pearl Harbor are a CLEAR DEMONSTRATION of the folly of retiring the Harrier / Carrier and the awesome strike power that they delivered.
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Shackman
I think you should really read up on Taranto.
It was the Royal Navy that believed and proved it was possible to sink a battleship when we did it!
The architect of the Japanese Pearl Harbour attack happened to be there at the time of the attack on Taranto and saw the possibilities.
Battle of Taranto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Although a disaster on one level, without Pearl Harbour I suspect most of us on this side of the pond would have German as our 'mother tongue'."
Utter Tripe.
We might not have had what we needed to defeat Germany in Europe on our own, but we certainly had the means to thwart any invasion force as Hitler well knew.
I think you should really read up on Taranto.
It was the Royal Navy that believed and proved it was possible to sink a battleship when we did it!
The architect of the Japanese Pearl Harbour attack happened to be there at the time of the attack on Taranto and saw the possibilities.
Battle of Taranto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Although a disaster on one level, without Pearl Harbour I suspect most of us on this side of the pond would have German as our 'mother tongue'."
Utter Tripe.
We might not have had what we needed to defeat Germany in Europe on our own, but we certainly had the means to thwart any invasion force as Hitler well knew.
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Tourist
"We might not have had what we needed to defeat Germany in Europe on our own, but we certainly had the means to thwart any invasion force as Hitler well knew."
Agree.
If Hitler hadn't opened up the Russian front, things would have been different all over Europe post WWII.
.
"We might not have had what we needed to defeat Germany in Europe on our own, but we certainly had the means to thwart any invasion force as Hitler well knew."
Agree.
If Hitler hadn't opened up the Russian front, things would have been different all over Europe post WWII.
.
As an aside, it is ironic to note that the way things are going Germany will soon be effectively running much of Europe - without a shot fired in anger. Is that progress, or loss of sovereignty by stealth..?
I thought the majority of European countries were supposed to be democracies...?
Anyway, I'll let people get back on topic, unless this is going to descend into another RN vs RAF pi#*ing contest......
I thought the majority of European countries were supposed to be democracies...?
Anyway, I'll let people get back on topic, unless this is going to descend into another RN vs RAF pi#*ing contest......
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Biggus
It (Europe) is a democracy.
Democracy DICTATED by the EU.
The EU is worse than the UN now IMHO.
Certainly looks like Europe is being run by Germany. UK looks to be on the sidelines. Can't understand why I keep reading in the papers about EU regulations this, EU regulations that, sometimes it makes my head spin
when I read some of the rules councils etc have to adhere to now - stupid rules.
It (Europe) is a democracy.
Democracy DICTATED by the EU.
The EU is worse than the UN now IMHO.
Certainly looks like Europe is being run by Germany. UK looks to be on the sidelines. Can't understand why I keep reading in the papers about EU regulations this, EU regulations that, sometimes it makes my head spin
when I read some of the rules councils etc have to adhere to now - stupid rules.
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Germany and Japan continued WWII after the surrender by economic means. They couldn't defeat us militarily, so they did it economically. And who provided the cash? The USA of course....unwittingly
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OafOrfUxAche
What do you mean ?
Hitler had already invaded Poland and others by then, I consider those countries to be Europe.
Are you saying Britain and the US Wouldn't have re invaded a la D Day ?
What do you mean ?
Hitler had already invaded Poland and others by then, I consider those countries to be Europe.
Are you saying Britain and the US Wouldn't have re invaded a la D Day ?
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not really
He wanted Poland for the lebensraum
Russia was a just a political target - he hated commies. NOT lebensraum - except for maybe the Ukraine. And the Georgian oilfields. And....
He wanted Poland for the lebensraum
Russia was a just a political target - he hated commies. NOT lebensraum - except for maybe the Ukraine. And the Georgian oilfields. And....
Tourist
Before leaping into print maybe you should also read up on Billy Mitchell. Please note it was not me but the USN that did not believe air power could destroy their battleships, would not accept his tactics, and did not see the writing on the wall from Taranto. Even so, it was thanks to his actions that the USN air wing started their own carrier programme.
As for reading up on Taranto, it was the first use of maritime air power I studied, and also met and discussed the battle with a good number of the survivors over the years - starting with a next door neighbour whilst still at school. I have also had the pleasure (mostly) of surviving a number of Taranto Nights.
Notwithstanding any of that, please remember this thread was started to remember the events of 8 December 1941, and all that flowed from that act.
Before leaping into print maybe you should also read up on Billy Mitchell. Please note it was not me but the USN that did not believe air power could destroy their battleships, would not accept his tactics, and did not see the writing on the wall from Taranto. Even so, it was thanks to his actions that the USN air wing started their own carrier programme.
As for reading up on Taranto, it was the first use of maritime air power I studied, and also met and discussed the battle with a good number of the survivors over the years - starting with a next door neighbour whilst still at school. I have also had the pleasure (mostly) of surviving a number of Taranto Nights.
Notwithstanding any of that, please remember this thread was started to remember the events of 8 December 1941, and all that flowed from that act.