Spitfire Women - The ATA in WW11
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Spitfire Women - The ATA in WW11
Just watched a program called Spitfire Women - The ATA in WW11.
Amazing stories and what a talented group of ladies, especially considering
they flew some without any training on that type and only had the ATA cheat sheets in the folder that they had put together to know what to do when they needed to land the aircraft.
One of them said she flew 76 different types of planes during the war.
Amazing stories and what a talented group of ladies, especially considering
they flew some without any training on that type and only had the ATA cheat sheets in the folder that they had put together to know what to do when they needed to land the aircraft.
One of them said she flew 76 different types of planes during the war.
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Just watched the show as well, couple of things that stuck me were:
Then again, different times different needs.
- 1 in 10 ladies died during delivery flights due 'cloud' - is that a nice old way of saying CFIT due stress of Weather?
- No radios or defensive armament were fitted to the aircraft they piloted,
- Took until 1941 until they were allowed to fly first line aircraft,
- Hundreds of women pilots from around the world volunteered their time (Lives?) to join the ATA.
Then again, different times different needs.
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No radios was a surprise. Agree re the number killed.
The description by one pilot of coming face to face with a hill in the Cotswold's but having the power and agility to pull up just in time.
Definitely a case of different times different needs.
.
The description by one pilot of coming face to face with a hill in the Cotswold's but having the power and agility to pull up just in time.
Definitely a case of different times different needs.
.
I met one of them when I was working at White Waltham in 1998: Lettice Curtis. She seemed a pleasant enough lady. I can only wonder at the differnt types of classic British aeroplanes she got her hands on. I guess in war people are capable of extraordinary things
I can only wonder at the different types of classic British aeroplanes she got her hands on.
I knew a lovely couple and, when I first met them, expressed great interest on hearing that he had flown in Lancasters and Liberators. He simply turned to his petite blonde bride and said, "Remind me, darling, how many different ypes of aircraft do you have in your logbook from your time in the ATA?", and she said, "Oh, I stopped counting at 50."
It was only when attending her funeral many years later that I discovered that she had also been awarded the MBE.
Jack
I knew a lovely couple and, when I first met them, expressed great interest on hearing that he had flown in Lancasters and Liberators. He simply turned to his petite blonde bride and said, "Remind me, darling, how many different ypes of aircraft do you have in your logbook from your time in the ATA?", and she said, "Oh, I stopped counting at 50."
It was only when attending her funeral many years later that I discovered that she had also been awarded the MBE.
Jack
Evertonian
I like the couple that each flew a Spitfire back to France on their Honeymoon. Docked 3 months pay when the papers got hold of it...
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Having met two of them, and flown with them, I can say they were larger than life characters. My wife and I were with Diana Barnato Walker in the Officer's Mess at R.A.F Middleton St. George ( Durham/Teeside Airport now) when she got the urge to fly at more than the speed of sound in a Lightning.
Check her out on Google it's worth a read.
Check her out on Google it's worth a read.
Last edited by Lancelot37; 4th Nov 2011 at 22:19. Reason: Spelling
Buster and L37,
Perhaps the lady who flew with her husband to the continent and Diana B-W were one and the same? I seem to recall something along those lines.
About six years ago, the magazine "Focus", which is a rag of the standard of RAF News, had a photo of Diana B-W attending an event wearing her ATA uniform. The magazine stated that she was a member of the ATS - the forerunner of the Womens' Royal Army Corps (WRAC) - and there was some guff about that.
I wrote to the editor and pointed out the error and, whilst he printed a correction, he didn't take up my offer to write piece about the ATA.
Old Duffer
Perhaps the lady who flew with her husband to the continent and Diana B-W were one and the same? I seem to recall something along those lines.
About six years ago, the magazine "Focus", which is a rag of the standard of RAF News, had a photo of Diana B-W attending an event wearing her ATA uniform. The magazine stated that she was a member of the ATS - the forerunner of the Womens' Royal Army Corps (WRAC) - and there was some guff about that.
I wrote to the editor and pointed out the error and, whilst he printed a correction, he didn't take up my offer to write piece about the ATA.
Old Duffer
My b-in-laws mother was one {Peggy Templeton}and passed away late last year, unfortunately she wasnt to coherent in her latter years but did occasionaly come out with stories, i would like to try and find out more if there are any books/sites on the subject.
One story she told was when staying at a hotel in the London in the sixties she got chatting to a Pan Am crew who were regalling stories of flying, she piped up that she had done a bit,to which the crew said "Oh right really and what types have you flown"
She then popped out her pilots licence{which she always carried around in even in her later years and did show me}which was a little faded brown booklet with something like an issue number of 13 on it, issued sometime in the 20s, gave it to the crew who whose jaws dropped and then began to reel off the types she had flown.
She had them enthralled for hours.
zfw
One story she told was when staying at a hotel in the London in the sixties she got chatting to a Pan Am crew who were regalling stories of flying, she piped up that she had done a bit,to which the crew said "Oh right really and what types have you flown"
She then popped out her pilots licence{which she always carried around in even in her later years and did show me}which was a little faded brown booklet with something like an issue number of 13 on it, issued sometime in the 20s, gave it to the crew who whose jaws dropped and then began to reel off the types she had flown.
She had them enthralled for hours.
zfw
zfw,
Try these two books:
Air Transport Auxiliary (The Lost Child) by A J Walters and published by Aries Publications ISBN 9780954181567
Brief Glory The Story of the Air Transport Auxiliary by E C Cheesman and published by the ATA Association in 1946 and last reprinted in 2001 No ISBN
I bought my copies through the Maidenhead Tourist Information Office.
The former book contains the Roll of Honour whilst the latter lists all ATA crew.
Old Duffer
Try these two books:
Air Transport Auxiliary (The Lost Child) by A J Walters and published by Aries Publications ISBN 9780954181567
Brief Glory The Story of the Air Transport Auxiliary by E C Cheesman and published by the ATA Association in 1946 and last reprinted in 2001 No ISBN
I bought my copies through the Maidenhead Tourist Information Office.
The former book contains the Roll of Honour whilst the latter lists all ATA crew.
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ATA Women
There is also Diana Barnato Walkers autobiography, "Spreading My Wings", first published 1994, by Patrick Stephens Ltd. A truly amazing read. The legendary Amy Johnson was also lost in the Thames Estuary while on an ATA delivery flight of an Airspeed Oxford in 1941. (ref "Amy Johnson" by Midge Gillies, published Weidenfeld and Nicholson).
I was priveleged to have received my first few flying lessons from an ex ATA lady called Monique Agazarian (spelling may not be quite correct) who held my attention over many cups of coffee with tales of Spitfires and Lancasters. Does anybody have any idea whether she is still with us?
Undoubtedly a remarkable and extremely brave group of ladies, whóse like I doubt we shall see again. From the comfort of my warm and comfortable 777 flight deck, I salute them all.
7B
I was priveleged to have received my first few flying lessons from an ex ATA lady called Monique Agazarian (spelling may not be quite correct) who held my attention over many cups of coffee with tales of Spitfires and Lancasters. Does anybody have any idea whether she is still with us?
Undoubtedly a remarkable and extremely brave group of ladies, whóse like I doubt we shall see again. From the comfort of my warm and comfortable 777 flight deck, I salute them all
.7B
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Diana Barnato Walkers autobiography, "Spreading My Wings", first published 1994, by Patrick Stephens Ltd. A truly amazing read.
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I'll echo that. My wife gets a mention, but not by name.
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I'll echo that. My wife gets a mention, but not by name.
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Some amazing stories from these girls (which many of them were at that time).
One that stuck in my mind was the lady who went from piloting a Spitfire, to a Mossie, and then finished off the day in a Lancaster. All flown from notes in a little notepad!
One that stuck in my mind was the lady who went from piloting a Spitfire, to a Mossie, and then finished off the day in a Lancaster. All flown from notes in a little notepad!
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We all agree that the women of the ATA were great, I would just like to make a comment on the women in general of that era who lived through WWII and just after, mainly based on what my Grand mother told me.
From an era where ladies didn't work or were secretaries to the war starting and the whole lifestyle turning upside down and from what I can gather, they mucked in and got on with the jobs needing to be done - starting with our current Queen.
From becoming farm workers in all of the British weather (often sent well away from home), factory workers, joining the forces all the way to SOE agents behind enemy lines (Nancy Wake, The White Mouse gave a talk at my unit dinner one year, very impressed, RIP).
And of course those who stayed in the big cities had to contend with the Blitz, Doodlebugs, V2's and in my grand mothers case being shot at by a Stuka.
We don't hear nearly as much about these people as maybe we should.
I just thought it was worth mentioning all of the women as this is where I could first relate the terms "stiff upper lip and got on with it" when I first heard them.
Apologise for the thread drift but thought they deserved a mention.
.
From an era where ladies didn't work or were secretaries to the war starting and the whole lifestyle turning upside down and from what I can gather, they mucked in and got on with the jobs needing to be done - starting with our current Queen.
From becoming farm workers in all of the British weather (often sent well away from home), factory workers, joining the forces all the way to SOE agents behind enemy lines (Nancy Wake, The White Mouse gave a talk at my unit dinner one year, very impressed, RIP).
And of course those who stayed in the big cities had to contend with the Blitz, Doodlebugs, V2's and in my grand mothers case being shot at by a Stuka.
We don't hear nearly as much about these people as maybe we should.
I just thought it was worth mentioning all of the women as this is where I could first relate the terms "stiff upper lip and got on with it" when I first heard them.
Apologise for the thread drift but thought they deserved a mention.
.
777boyo,
It's in Maidenhead, as are many of the graves of ATA crews killed on active service.
I'm sure I have a link somewhere to a summary of the losses they suffered, including an ATC cadet flying as a Flight Engineer aged 17 - it' s
true!
Old Duffer
It's in Maidenhead, as are many of the graves of ATA crews killed on active service.
I'm sure I have a link somewhere to a summary of the losses they suffered, including an ATC cadet flying as a Flight Engineer aged 17 - it' s
true!
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Monique Agazarian ....... Does anybody have any idea whether she is still with us?
http://www.lightaircraftassociation....8/Lyonesse.pdf
RootsWeb: AUS-NSW-SURNAMES-L Re: Daily Telegraph second book of Obituaries
Last edited by Brian Abraham; 6th Nov 2011 at 02:02. Reason: Include date
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Womens role in WW2...
500N,
No argument with the point you make. Women in WW2 seem to have risen to the occasion magnificently, across the social strata. My wifes' Great Grandmother was bombed in a munitions factory in Birmingham,but stuck with it for the duration, and I'm sure there are many, many other such tales around. And I've always had enormous admiration for the courage of the girls of SOE, whose stories are now occasionally popping up in the national press as they sadly leave us, not always in the circumstances which they deserve. As an aviator, tho', I find it easier to relate to the exploits of the ATA girls, flying around in what would now be regarded as very basic kit in all sorts of inclement weather, let alone with the threat of someone loosing of bits of hot metal at you.
If you'll permit me a short related thread creep, I'm as guilty as the next member of our generation (upper mid-50''s) in being critical of "the youth of today". Its very easy to assume they would not rise to the occasion the way the WW2 generation did. However, I recently attended a wedding at the RMA Sandhurst, and I have to say the experience bolstered my faith in todays younger generation - a fine bunch of young officers present, almost all in their mid-20's, the majority of whom sported the Afghan medal. I dare say the experience would have been the same had the wedding been at Cranwell, Dartmouth, or any other military school. I take my hat off to them all - certainly made me realise that we are still producing some of that "stiff upper lip" quality that 500N refers to. The weak link now is undoubtedly the politicians, political correctness and general liberal outlook which we've been inundated by. But enough of that.
I'll certainly raise a glass on the 11th to all the women who served, in whatever capacity.
7B
No argument with the point you make. Women in WW2 seem to have risen to the occasion magnificently, across the social strata. My wifes' Great Grandmother was bombed in a munitions factory in Birmingham,but stuck with it for the duration, and I'm sure there are many, many other such tales around. And I've always had enormous admiration for the courage of the girls of SOE, whose stories are now occasionally popping up in the national press as they sadly leave us, not always in the circumstances which they deserve. As an aviator, tho', I find it easier to relate to the exploits of the ATA girls, flying around in what would now be regarded as very basic kit in all sorts of inclement weather, let alone with the threat of someone loosing of bits of hot metal at you.
If you'll permit me a short related thread creep, I'm as guilty as the next member of our generation (upper mid-50''s) in being critical of "the youth of today". Its very easy to assume they would not rise to the occasion the way the WW2 generation did. However, I recently attended a wedding at the RMA Sandhurst, and I have to say the experience bolstered my faith in todays younger generation - a fine bunch of young officers present, almost all in their mid-20's, the majority of whom sported the Afghan medal. I dare say the experience would have been the same had the wedding been at Cranwell, Dartmouth, or any other military school. I take my hat off to them all - certainly made me realise that we are still producing some of that "stiff upper lip" quality that 500N refers to. The weak link now is undoubtedly the politicians, political correctness and general liberal outlook which we've been inundated by. But enough of that.
I'll certainly raise a glass on the 11th to all the women who served, in whatever capacity.
7B