Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Armed Forces pension

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Armed Forces pension

Old 7th Dec 2011, 14:35
  #121 (permalink)  
FFP
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 806
And, in addition to RLE's comment above, I believe that the IPP is not considered "retirement" age, which makes me all the more nervous.....
FFP is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2011, 17:58
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Notts
Posts: 21
I hope they let us know ASAP as my IP is in 2017 so if they take that away from me I will go now and start a new career.
harrier123 is offline  
Old 7th Dec 2011, 18:36
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 390
Along with an awful lot of officers and SNCOs I suspect...
Jobza Guddun is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2011, 04:59
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Red Line,

That isn't policy, it was an idea suggested as a possible palliative in order to prevent the 'National Strike'. George might be looking on that now as 'offer withdrawn' or he might not. It all depends on whether the Unions believe there is mileage in calling everyone out again.

But, if it was introduced, there would still be people just outside the cut off date and there would still be anger ie; 54 years 364 days old on April 1 2015 (or whatever it is, I haven't had a coffee yet and my brain is still dead). Far better to have a tapering down system that is fairer to all (in my 'umble opinion).

Edit: This might offer a steer.

BBC News - New NHS pensions offer expected from government

Last edited by Al R; 8th Dec 2011 at 05:17.
Al R is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2012, 17:36
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Darling - where are we?
Posts: 2,553
More pensions pain in the budget?

If the reporting is correct, then Dave, George and Beaker are now considering lowering the 50K annual pensions contribution threshold to 30 / 40k in next month's budget.

http://http://www.citywire.co.uk/money/pension-savers-take-a-second-hit-as-mps-eye-annual-allowance-cut/a566612?ref=citywire-money-latest-news-list

According to the Financial Times, ministers are eyeing a cut to the £50,000 pension annual allowance as a way to save money. Everyone is currently entitled to receive tax relief on pensions contributions up to £50,000 a year but this could be reduced to either £30,000 or £40,000 in next month’s Budget.
So rather than just certain ranks getting a tax bill on promotion, if it goes down to 30k, just how many across the Armed Forces will be faced with a pensions-related tax bill each year because of the way the Treasury calculates what our annual contributions are deemed to be?

If they do this, the Treasury & MOD will be kicking themselves; if they had hung on just a little bit longer, they could have saved on redundancy payments
Melchett01 is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2012, 18:18
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 0
What happens if aircrew get together and refuse to accept the pensions changes, instead requiring an immediate termination of contract sans the 12 month 25% flying pay cut?

Its going to look pretty bad when it turns out they are forcing through major terms to our terms and conditions without an immediate option to leave (or option to refuse changes and thus terminate)? It certainly is going to put the cat amongst the pigeons. If my IPP goes or I get taxed on my (reduced) gratuity, sorry, but I am off. And so are a significant number of others serving on the front line. Lets see how quickly they can get the bean counters flying aircraft shall we? Or, are the pensions changes worth the roughly 3-5 million it costs to train us?

Last edited by VinRouge; 14th Feb 2012 at 18:36.
VinRouge is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2012, 18:39
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Old Cheese Emporium
Posts: 57
Has anyone heard anything about the Consultation Period for changes to the Armed Forces pension? It was due early this year to capture views from around the services.

There needs to be mass involvement by those affected to ensure the powers that be are aware of the gravity of any loss of immediate pension or gratuity.

The potential impact on manpower through experienced people leaving or those remaining losing the 'can do attitude' MUST be communicated firmly and clearly.
Albert Another is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2012, 12:06
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Notts
Posts: 21
If they get rid of IP at the 16 year point I will be off. I also expect many more will be who are currently around the 10 year point.
harrier123 is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2012, 12:41
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Darling - where are we?
Posts: 2,553
Harrier123,

These proposed changes are far more insidious than simply scrapping the 16/38 IP. Given the way that the Treasury and HMRC calculates pensions means that if the annual contribution is limited to 40K/p.a., this could quite conceivably lead to people - not particualrly senior ones at that - getting a tax bill every year based on their pension. If you then get promoted, standby for a potentially eye watering bill.

So whilst at the moment it's only promotion above sqn ldr (I believe sqn ldr - wg cdr and a couple of the air ranks) that are hit by this charge, can you imagine the damage caused to Defence when it becomes apparent that flt lts and those on equivalent salaries / pensions start to get a pensions-linked tax bill on top of an effective income tax rate of 50%? And based on how the deemed contributions are calculated, with an actuarial factor of 16 applied, it probably won't be that difficult to hit a 40 or even 30K limit each year.

This is totally incoherent thinking by the government, designed purely to appeal to mob rule against bankers and financiers, but which we are dragged in to. On the one hand people are encouraged to save, but when they do, they are obviously wealthy if they can afford to put money away (is that an implicit admission of just how expensive the UK is to live in???) and thus are ripe for getting hit by a tax bill. That many other ordinary individuals are going be caught up in it means nothing to our millionaire cabinet members who just want to get re-elected and continue to enjoy the trappings of power before drawing their platinum plated pensions.

Last edited by Melchett01; 15th Feb 2012 at 13:32.
Melchett01 is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2012, 14:48
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 0
Is it just me or can people see major trouble ahead for the armed forces and senior leadership? Its not just pensions; the changes afoot have already made a couple of very capable junior officers turn round to seniors and declare their hand - that promotion isn't worth the stress when you compare the crap to the monetary gain. And believe me, the pension is THE ONLY reason it seems today that people are seeking promotion. Most are now biffing off JOD or whatever it is called and giving bristol groundschool a call. Who blames them?

Get yourself to WinCo, hit your ceiling and look forward to 5 years in a non-flying related job sans Flying Pay according to the new career path for senior officers.


sounds as if the idea of promotion seriously (and increasingly) sucks c0ck. And as many are pointing out, where will be the political will for new and significant FRI in the current age of austerity? I cant see it happening until a full retention crisis is upon us. At least a senior manager at tescos doesnt put up with a 100% audit rate on their allowances system.

Mediocrity - the new standard.
VinRouge is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2012, 14:54
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: EGDL
Posts: 274
E Petition opposing this change

There isn't much support opposing this change as only 9074 people have signed the EPetition opposing this change here: Ministry of Defence - e-petitions

It needs 100,000 to get aired in HoC.
OKOC is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2012, 17:13
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 103
consultation period

We at the Forces Pension Society had understood that the consultation period was supposed to be concluded by the end of March. However, time is running out for this to be achieved as the Framework Document for the proposed new scheme has not been published yet. I will seek an update and post what I find here. Once the document is available it will be posted on our website ( The Forces Pension Society ).
Voxpop is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2012, 17:27
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,136
Perhaps the lack of overt support for an e-petition is a case of:

1. Military types being institutionally cautious about e-petitions.
2. Military types knowing that wrt actually having the desired effect an airing in The House is as likely to succeed as a Baghdad paper round.
3. Military types instead joining the AFPS as a means to ensure that someone knowledgable is fighting their cause.
4. We're all actually waiting to see what the initial document says, after all, you can't fight what you can't see.
orca is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2012, 20:29
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YORKS
Posts: 133
Vin Rouge

I for one will be downing tools along side you...

It will take a collective action to show the effects of their decisions.

I've had enough. 4 years to go and counting.

3 bladed beast is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2012, 10:58
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Vin Rouge:
Mediocrity - the new standard.
The way ahead for maxxing the benefits from a Final Salary career average pension scheme too..?

The budget next month will have much in it about retirement planning too. George and Danny are currently scrapping over the future of tax free cash, higher rate tax relief, the level of tax free income allowance etc etc.
Al R is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2012, 11:39
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Old Cheese Emporium
Posts: 57
Voxpop – Thank you for letting us know as soon as you have any info. As of yet the immediate chain of command is sightless of any consultation period or planned changes. How such consequential events can be so invisible, at this stage, is staggering.


It’s a short question but where do the military stand an e-petitions? Can we sign up? Many of my colleagues & me normally just ‘Keep Calm & Carry On’ but this is all or nothing time. If we can sign the e-petition then it must be vocalised far & wide. I think many people think they are not allowed to sign, myself included.
Albert Another is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2012, 13:19
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: England
Posts: 106
Just sign it anyway......I have.
Charlie Time is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2012, 14:48
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: EGDL
Posts: 274
where do the military stand an e-petitions? Can we sign up? Many of my colleagues & me normally just ‘Keep Calm & Carry On’ but this is all or nothing time. If we can sign the e-petition then it must be vocalised far & wide. I think many people think they are not allowed to sign, myself included.
The Government website doesn't state who can or cannot vote but if you are worried about Big Brother watching you can always get your "wife" to vote
OKOC is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2012, 14:59
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: EGDL
Posts: 274
Submission Conditions

An e-petition may freely disagree with the government or call for changes of policy. There will be no attempt to exclude critical views. Decisions to accept or reject will be made on an impartial basis.

However, to protect this service from abuse, e-petitions must satisfy some basic conditions.

To create or sign an e-petition, you must be either:
•a British citizen
•a resident in the UK (you normally live in the UK)
These are the conditions from the official Gov't website--servicemen are not barred from signing.
OKOC is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2012, 17:30
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: My House
Posts: 3
Hello, first time post brought on by worry over the changes that are going to be wrought on our pensions.

At the moment, as an AFPS75 member (and according to the pension calculator), I'm expecting to receive an IP of around £13700 based on an 18year commission (I started as a short service but changed to a PC, hence 16+2 years for me) and finishing no higher than a level 9 Flt Lt (that's ambition for you, but I always plan on a worst case scenario!). I'll also hopefully get a gratuity of about 41k in my pocket on the day I leave.

This all now looks like it's going to be altered quite considerably by the change to Career Average Earnings from 2015. I'll only have 5 years left to do by that point but all the differing rumours and opinions on this thread are causing me to question what those last 5 years will bring. Will there by any monetary point to looking to get promoted to SO2 come 2015, assuming I still look to leave at 2020 when my commission comes to an end? What will be the impact on the pension I receive at my IP? Will there still be an IP? Will there be a pension calculator to help thickos like me work out what we're going to get? So many questions but no one at my work seem to have any real idea on what the financial implications will be for those of us who are relatively happy to work out our current commissions but aren't striving to stay in the service until our 50s. If the career average earnings lid comes into place in 2015 then what will the incentive be for people who are looking to say "thanks v much for all the fish but at the end of my regular commission i'm off"?

Also, what's all this about pension-linked tax bills? As stated above, I'm a bit thick so this is A-Level stuff to me. Anyone care to explain it to old stupid here?
Too Old Too Soon is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.