Armed Forces pension
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SFFP, dont you worry, my generation will have its pound of flesh when you a all in nursing homes dribbling in your soup and we come to power! the boomer generation is widely regarded my my generation as having fed on their own childrens futures to feather their own nests!
On pensions generally, given the state of the economy.......
Am I being a bit neurotic in having a nagging worry that the gits might simply come out and say,
"We're so skint that we're cutting public service pensions currently in payment by x %. Sorry, but that is the way it is, and oh, there's no appeal."
I'm on finals for pension (gold plated, natch) and this is my one big fear about giving notice.
CG
Am I being a bit neurotic in having a nagging worry that the gits might simply come out and say,
"We're so skint that we're cutting public service pensions currently in payment by x %. Sorry, but that is the way it is, and oh, there's no appeal."
I'm on finals for pension (gold plated, natch) and this is my one big fear about giving notice.
CG
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Even if they take 25% of mine it will still leave me with more money a month than most young couples earn between them so it is hardly going to put either you or I in the poor house is it 
Just to reassure some of you:
I retired from the RAF in 1997 at the age of 41. I went for a Resetlement Commutation which reduced my pension from approx £9500 to £7346 & gave me a £44,000 lump sum instead of £24,000 (to pay my mortgage off). Obviously, the value of £7346 in 1997 to what it buys in 2011 has had a dramatic effect this year! I smoke, I drink & like expensive cars!
It was (despite the monthly watching of the pennies) the best thing I ever did. I don't have any spare cash until December but have a house that I own outright & currently for sale for £450,000 to move abroad to die in penury (
)
When I see/read about the "poor" Civil Servants striking today my heart weeps for them (not).
The good news is that in 7 days time I am 55. The original £9500 pension is restored & the RPI/CPI index linking is backdated & applied from 1997. My pension now becomes £14,586 (forecast obtained from Xafinity) in December with a 5.2% increase on that in April 2012.
Happy days.
I retired from the RAF in 1997 at the age of 41. I went for a Resetlement Commutation which reduced my pension from approx £9500 to £7346 & gave me a £44,000 lump sum instead of £24,000 (to pay my mortgage off). Obviously, the value of £7346 in 1997 to what it buys in 2011 has had a dramatic effect this year! I smoke, I drink & like expensive cars!
It was (despite the monthly watching of the pennies) the best thing I ever did. I don't have any spare cash until December but have a house that I own outright & currently for sale for £450,000 to move abroad to die in penury (
)When I see/read about the "poor" Civil Servants striking today my heart weeps for them (not).
The good news is that in 7 days time I am 55. The original £9500 pension is restored & the RPI/CPI index linking is backdated & applied from 1997. My pension now becomes £14,586 (forecast obtained from Xafinity) in December with a 5.2% increase on that in April 2012.
Happy days.
Seldom,
My 'package' isn't the mil one, so is roughly 60% of yours. No, I wouldn't be in the workhouse. Just interested if others thought my worry is an irrational one or not. I could easily do another year at £60k to soften the blow.
CG
My 'package' isn't the mil one, so is roughly 60% of yours. No, I wouldn't be in the workhouse. Just interested if others thought my worry is an irrational one or not. I could easily do another year at £60k to soften the blow.
CG
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Don’t Forget: The Armed Forces Don’t Strike
The Forces Pension Society - Don't Forget: The Armed Forces Don't Strike
Major General John Moore-Bick, General Secretary of the Forces Pension Society issued a statement to coincide with the ‘Day of Action’ strikes planned for 30th November. He said “don’t forget that members of the Armed Forces cannot take strike action. They cannot join trade union activities. Those who serve their country loyally in this unique way forgo many rights others take for granted”. In addition to their many concerns about operational demands, redundancy and reconfiguration, with all the family turbulence which that portends, Service personnel have widespread uneasiness and worries about pensions and future terms of service, with some elements in common with the rest of the public sector. Contrary to many official statements, military pensions are neither gold-plated, nor free. A Serviceman’s fair rate of pay is reduced or abated, partly in respect of his pension entitlement, the only significant financial recompense he receives for the exceptional risk and hardships of a job in the Armed Forces. Service personnel do not routinely have a clear statement of what they accrue, and they are increasingly subject to rumour and uncertainly as yet another new pension scheme is generated for them.
Furthermore, the Forces Pension Society shares the concerns of public sector workers over the potential downgrading of pensions resulting from the move away from Retail Price Index linking to the Consumer Price Index. For members of the Armed Forces community, this will result in many cases in the loss of tens, even hundreds of thousands of pounds over the life of their pensionable service entitlement. The change is also contrary to the many promises of RPI indexation made in every written publication, given to Service personnel when enlisting in the Armed Forces, and during their subsequent careers.
Therefore the Society sympathises with the concerns of those in the public service sector especially over the change in indexation, even though the Armed Forces community, both serving and retired will not join them in their action.
Major General John Moore-Bick, General Secretary of the Forces Pension Society issued a statement to coincide with the ‘Day of Action’ strikes planned for 30th November. He said “don’t forget that members of the Armed Forces cannot take strike action. They cannot join trade union activities. Those who serve their country loyally in this unique way forgo many rights others take for granted”. In addition to their many concerns about operational demands, redundancy and reconfiguration, with all the family turbulence which that portends, Service personnel have widespread uneasiness and worries about pensions and future terms of service, with some elements in common with the rest of the public sector. Contrary to many official statements, military pensions are neither gold-plated, nor free. A Serviceman’s fair rate of pay is reduced or abated, partly in respect of his pension entitlement, the only significant financial recompense he receives for the exceptional risk and hardships of a job in the Armed Forces. Service personnel do not routinely have a clear statement of what they accrue, and they are increasingly subject to rumour and uncertainly as yet another new pension scheme is generated for them.
Furthermore, the Forces Pension Society shares the concerns of public sector workers over the potential downgrading of pensions resulting from the move away from Retail Price Index linking to the Consumer Price Index. For members of the Armed Forces community, this will result in many cases in the loss of tens, even hundreds of thousands of pounds over the life of their pensionable service entitlement. The change is also contrary to the many promises of RPI indexation made in every written publication, given to Service personnel when enlisting in the Armed Forces, and during their subsequent careers.
Therefore the Society sympathises with the concerns of those in the public service sector especially over the change in indexation, even though the Armed Forces community, both serving and retired will not join them in their action.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Yes, I am feeling smug for once. However, I hope my illustration on commutation helps as well?
My SERPS element, my military pension and my CS pension all increased at a lower rate. I heard 3% might be nearer the mark.
If you think you will be getting a 5.2% increase on your military pension think again. It was only the basic State old-age pension that got the full index link last year and it will probably be the same next year.
My SERPS element, my military pension and my CS pension all increased at a lower rate. I heard 3% might be nearer the mark.
My SERPS element, my military pension and my CS pension all increased at a lower rate. I heard 3% might be nearer the mark.
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The public sector consists of two tiers. Those who are essential, ie pilots, police constables, nurses and the other larger tier, consisting of bat environment facilitators, health and safety inspectors and JPA auditors. Private sector pensions would be perfectly affordable if there werent as many proles enrolled in the system.
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Interesting to see that all the marchers yesterday (what there were of them) just left all their rubbish on the streets for their fellow workers (ie, bin-men) to pick up. Elitist, moi? no, not at all!!
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Switch from RPI to CPI ruled lawful, Teachers Union are appealing.
BBC News - Pension switch ruled lawful by High Court
The government's public sector pensions policy has been given a major boost following a ruling at the High Court.
Trade unions brought a judicial review of the way Consumer Prices Index (CPI) was now being used instead of the faster-rising Retail Prices Index (RPI) for pensions inflation proofing.
The High Court has ruled that the government's switch was lawful.
The decision affects the value of pension increases for millions of public sector pensioners.
The policy also saves the government many millions of pounds in the coming years and is a major area of disagreement amid the public sector pensions dispute.
Up to two million public sector workers went on strike on Wednesday.
Pension shift The new CPI inflation-proofing policy was first applied in April this year.
It saw pensioners in schemes covering civil servants, teachers, NHS employees, local government and others, receiving an increase of 3.1% instead of 4.6%.
On Tuesday, new projections published at the time of the Autumn Statement showed government is now assuming the gap between the measures will widen from 1.2 to 1.4 percentage points a year.
The Office for Budget Responsibility, the independent but government-funded economic forecaster, said that by 2016 the gap between CPI and RPI could be as high as 1.8 percentage points, predicting that CPI will go down to 2% by then, while RPI stays higher at 3.8%.
Lord Hutton's independent report on public service pensions, whose final report was published earlier this year, calculated that the unfunded public pension schemes (a definition that included all but the local government scheme) would save £1.8bn a year in cash payments by 2015-16 due to the move to CPI.
However, that saving will be much greater if the OBR's forecast of a wider divergence between the two inflation measures proves to be true.
If state benefits and tax credits - also affected by the policy - are included in the calculations, then the average annual government saving could be £6bn. The decision does not affect how the state pension is increased each year.
Government lawyers argued that ministers are entitled to consider the CPI to be "a more appropriate measure of changes in the general level of prices".
The trade unions' lawyers had argued that the government had acted beyond its powers. The NASUWT teaching union said it planned to appeal the High Court's decision.
BBC News - Pension switch ruled lawful by High Court
The government's public sector pensions policy has been given a major boost following a ruling at the High Court.
Trade unions brought a judicial review of the way Consumer Prices Index (CPI) was now being used instead of the faster-rising Retail Prices Index (RPI) for pensions inflation proofing.
The High Court has ruled that the government's switch was lawful.
The decision affects the value of pension increases for millions of public sector pensioners.
The policy also saves the government many millions of pounds in the coming years and is a major area of disagreement amid the public sector pensions dispute.
Up to two million public sector workers went on strike on Wednesday.
Pension shift The new CPI inflation-proofing policy was first applied in April this year.
It saw pensioners in schemes covering civil servants, teachers, NHS employees, local government and others, receiving an increase of 3.1% instead of 4.6%.
On Tuesday, new projections published at the time of the Autumn Statement showed government is now assuming the gap between the measures will widen from 1.2 to 1.4 percentage points a year.
The Office for Budget Responsibility, the independent but government-funded economic forecaster, said that by 2016 the gap between CPI and RPI could be as high as 1.8 percentage points, predicting that CPI will go down to 2% by then, while RPI stays higher at 3.8%.
Lord Hutton's independent report on public service pensions, whose final report was published earlier this year, calculated that the unfunded public pension schemes (a definition that included all but the local government scheme) would save £1.8bn a year in cash payments by 2015-16 due to the move to CPI.
However, that saving will be much greater if the OBR's forecast of a wider divergence between the two inflation measures proves to be true.
If state benefits and tax credits - also affected by the policy - are included in the calculations, then the average annual government saving could be £6bn. The decision does not affect how the state pension is increased each year.
Government lawyers argued that ministers are entitled to consider the CPI to be "a more appropriate measure of changes in the general level of prices".
The trade unions' lawyers had argued that the government had acted beyond its powers. The NASUWT teaching union said it planned to appeal the High Court's decision.
Yes, but do they get a tax free lump sum of three times the pension? If not, then it seems their scheme is not that dissimilar to AFPS75 (in terms of overall benefits and stand fast the choice they get over contributions).
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Does anyone really expect the 16 yr point to be a viable option for the chop come 2015 ? For instance, all those on PC's whose exit date is 2015 would be kicked out of the door (unless they got PA / promoted) and then get nothing till 55 or whatever age they subsequently determine pensions should be paid at?
And if that is an option, surely people would need to be given advance warning of such ?
That would be a huge, huge deal, esp if your exit date is 2015 but 16 yrs service comes in at 2014.......
And if that is an option, surely people would need to be given advance warning of such ?
That would be a huge, huge deal, esp if your exit date is 2015 but 16 yrs service comes in at 2014.......
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FFP,
that is a huge concern for me - as you can see from my (genuine) age, my 38/16 point is in early 2016, but my 16 point will have be reached in 2015.
Pulling the rug from under my feet would leave a big hole in my planned finances. The IPP and gratuity are the only reason I'm currently staying in. Otherwise, I might as well leave now, accept the preserved pension and only be fractionally worse off. I expect common sense will have to prevail and a system of accrued rights be payable at the 38 point for those of us on AFPS 75 and the remainder preserved.
However, i've never planned my finances solely relying on the mil pension just in case something like this does happen. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
H
that is a huge concern for me - as you can see from my (genuine) age, my 38/16 point is in early 2016, but my 16 point will have be reached in 2015.
Pulling the rug from under my feet would leave a big hole in my planned finances. The IPP and gratuity are the only reason I'm currently staying in. Otherwise, I might as well leave now, accept the preserved pension and only be fractionally worse off. I expect common sense will have to prevail and a system of accrued rights be payable at the 38 point for those of us on AFPS 75 and the remainder preserved.
However, i've never planned my finances solely relying on the mil pension just in case something like this does happen. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
H
FFP,
Sounds like you are in the same boat as me - option point in 2014 and waiting to hear the outcome of the review. However, we did ask that very question at a briefing and were told that wouldn't happen.
I have to say that part of me does have a degree of sympathy for the 4 man pensions team working down in MB at the moment, if for no other reason than their names and pictures plastered on the web as being the architects of the coming train crash. That said, I'm pretty sure (well hope at least) that their role is not only to redefine military pensions, but also to protect service personnel to the best of their ability; we all know that given half a chance the Treasury would cancel all our pensions and charge us to come to work.
To avoid a mass exodus to the point that threatens the operational effectiveness, possibly even the viability, of the military as a whole, there will have to be some sort of transitional arrangement. So assuming that if you fall into the bracket of being able to draw an IP before 2015 but stay on, I would hope that the promise of keeping what you have already accrued would mean that if you stayed in past 2015, you would be able to draw whatever you had earned up to that point with the rest being paid under some sort of transitional arrangements - possibly in the same way they have increased the state pension age - i.e. retirement at 55 for one age bracket, 56 for another, 57 for a third etc.
Sounds like you are in the same boat as me - option point in 2014 and waiting to hear the outcome of the review. However, we did ask that very question at a briefing and were told that wouldn't happen.
I have to say that part of me does have a degree of sympathy for the 4 man pensions team working down in MB at the moment, if for no other reason than their names and pictures plastered on the web as being the architects of the coming train crash. That said, I'm pretty sure (well hope at least) that their role is not only to redefine military pensions, but also to protect service personnel to the best of their ability; we all know that given half a chance the Treasury would cancel all our pensions and charge us to come to work.
To avoid a mass exodus to the point that threatens the operational effectiveness, possibly even the viability, of the military as a whole, there will have to be some sort of transitional arrangement. So assuming that if you fall into the bracket of being able to draw an IP before 2015 but stay on, I would hope that the promise of keeping what you have already accrued would mean that if you stayed in past 2015, you would be able to draw whatever you had earned up to that point with the rest being paid under some sort of transitional arrangements - possibly in the same way they have increased the state pension age - i.e. retirement at 55 for one age bracket, 56 for another, 57 for a third etc.
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Cheers everyone, my thoughts too. Being so close, a change like that would have a huge effect on my plans. I too would go earlier if the gratuity / immediate pension was taken away. I'm hoping it won't be as severe as that !
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As soon as we have the Framework Document we will put it on our website ( The Forces Pension Society ) and flag it up here.
We at the Forces Pension Society have be given to expect that Immediate Pensions would be honoured to the extent that they had been earned on the date of transfer to the new scheme but what we need to see is the transitional proposal, in black and white, in the Framework Document.
We at the Forces Pension Society have be given to expect that Immediate Pensions would be honoured to the extent that they had been earned on the date of transfer to the new scheme but what we need to see is the transitional proposal, in black and white, in the Framework Document.
Voxpop,
Any idea on whether the 'no impact on those with less than 10 years to work' policy for public servants will be applied to us too?
..although I'm still outside that window - bugger!
Any idea on whether the 'no impact on those with less than 10 years to work' policy for public servants will be applied to us too?
..although I'm still outside that window - bugger!