Birth Certificates - RAF Brats born overseas
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I eventually claimed British Citizenship By Descent by proving from my documents that I was the legitimate child of parents who were British by birth and that my father was the legitimate child of a father who was a British citizen by birth. The citizenship law has, since then, become even stricter.
Our youngest was born in Brunei in December 1982 and under the new citizenship law that came into force at midnight on 31st, she would not have acquired British citizenship either by birth or by descent.
Our youngest was born in Brunei in December 1982 and under the new citizenship law that came into force at midnight on 31st, she would not have acquired British citizenship either by birth or by descent.
The relevant leaflet is BN6:
BN6 - Children who are born outside the United Kingdom to parents in crown, designated or EC institution service
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My son was born at PMRAFH Akrotiri in 2001 and we had no problems getting a birth certificate, however, one problem arose later.
On entering the USA, the Border Control officer would not let him enter stating that as he was Cypriot (place of birth Akrotiri Cyprus on British Passport
), he was ineligible for the Visa Waiver Programme. A very concerned Mrs 84 and a very irate me, we eventually got through to them that as a serving RAF officer, I was highly unimpressed with their treatment of 'foreign' military personnel and questioned if the same applied to the children of American military personnel serving overseas. After much discussion, a most enjoyable family holiday to Disney followed
On entering the USA, the Border Control officer would not let him enter stating that as he was Cypriot (place of birth Akrotiri Cyprus on British Passport
), he was ineligible for the Visa Waiver Programme. A very concerned Mrs 84 and a very irate me, we eventually got through to them that as a serving RAF officer, I was highly unimpressed with their treatment of 'foreign' military personnel and questioned if the same applied to the children of American military personnel serving overseas. After much discussion, a most enjoyable family holiday to Disney followed
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I pointed out that it was thus written in sky blue ink with the magic words. No good. The British Embassy had instructed the authorities that only passports with that STAMP were permitted as too many people were driving from places well to the east and then camping out in the embassy grounds.
I had to return to Thesalonika and get a visa.
PS, you were lucky as they are not noted for their SoH or tolerance. A friend entering the USA, as he did frequently, had a plaster on his finger. When asked why he replied "Cut myself perhaps?" He was lucky they let him in but they delayed him for nearly an hour.
84nomore:
You and your son were lucky; my son, also born in TPMH but some 20 years earlier was also refused permission to enter the US when travelling on his British passport as he had put RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus as his place of birth in the ESTA and was therefore also ineligible for the Visa waiver programme. After a fairly intense interrogation he was imprisoned for 24 hours then deported - handcuffs and manacles to the airport, and 'restrained' on the aircraft until clear of US territory.
On a positive note he has now acquired a full visa to enter the States, although still has a stamp on EVERY page of his passport stating he was refused permission to enter the USA, and has a fairly heavy interview with Homeland Security on every visit.
You and your son were lucky; my son, also born in TPMH but some 20 years earlier was also refused permission to enter the US when travelling on his British passport as he had put RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus as his place of birth in the ESTA and was therefore also ineligible for the Visa waiver programme. After a fairly intense interrogation he was imprisoned for 24 hours then deported - handcuffs and manacles to the airport, and 'restrained' on the aircraft until clear of US territory.
On a positive note he has now acquired a full visa to enter the States, although still has a stamp on EVERY page of his passport stating he was refused permission to enter the USA, and has a fairly heavy interview with Homeland Security on every visit.
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Father was pupped 1913 when Grandad, a soldier, was stationed at Weihaiwei on the North China Coast. A couple of years later in 1915 Granddad had reason to be in Tientsin (Tianjin as it must now be known) popped into the British Consulate and give or take a few inexactitudes on precise dates and places that vexed Granny no end got Dad a birth certificate that covered the essentials
Happily this proved to be no obstacle when Dad joined the RAF in 1938 or indeed I (pupped at Halton in '54) when I proposed to take a Queens Shilling of a more salty complexion in '68.
Perhaps all three of us were lucky not to run into the demon Jobsworth.
Happily this proved to be no obstacle when Dad joined the RAF in 1938 or indeed I (pupped at Halton in '54) when I proposed to take a Queens Shilling of a more salty complexion in '68.
Perhaps all three of us were lucky not to run into the demon Jobsworth.
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Shackman,
Since been back to the US with no problems. Can't remember what I put on the ESTA, but probably missed out the RAF bit as it doesn't say that on the passport.
Since been back to the US with no problems. Can't remember what I put on the ESTA, but probably missed out the RAF bit as it doesn't say that on the passport.
RAF Brats born overseas
You and your son were lucky; my son, also born in TPMH but some 20 years earlier was also refused permission to enter the US when travelling on his British passport as he had put RAF Akrotiri, Cyprus as his place of birth in the ESTA and was therefore also ineligible for the Visa waiver programme. After a fairly intense interrogation he was imprisoned for 24 hours then deported - handcuffs and manacles to the airport, and 'restrained' on the aircraft until clear of US territory
For as long as I can remember an RAF Brat was a nickname used to describe a Halton Apprentice not the offspring of Service people
I have Mtarfa, Malta, as my place of birth in my passport and have never had any trouble entering the US on my UK passport.
Having entered the country through numerous entry points I have only been questioned once about my place of birth. After a 30 second explanation I was waived through.
Maybe Malta is part of the waiver scheme while Cyprus isn't, not sure...
...and having just checked, Malta is indeed eligible under the waiver scheme, while Cyprus is not. That explains that then.
Having entered the country through numerous entry points I have only been questioned once about my place of birth. After a 30 second explanation I was waived through.
Maybe Malta is part of the waiver scheme while Cyprus isn't, not sure...
...and having just checked, Malta is indeed eligible under the waiver scheme, while Cyprus is not. That explains that then.
Last edited by melmothtw; 15th Nov 2011 at 12:42.
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To be correct, us RAF offspring were Scale E brats!
Nobody has ever convinced me of the correctness of the term Scale E. Scale E of what? When? and Where? What were Scales A, B, C and D? Someone did try and tell me that it was an admin type scale, possibly pay accounts. I have used the term 'scaley brats' but never had the original meaning proved to my satisfaction. Someone did try and tell me it was some form of accounts scale but no one in accounts could find anything on it.
The term military brat is an English-language colloquial or military slang most notable for its usage in a pejorative context, used in several countries to describe the children and teenagers of active-duty military personnel,
I was brought up on the airman's married patch (1940s-1960s) and lived/worked for all but 5 years of my 63 year life on RAF stations and the term brat was used both forms. Even in my time as a Boy Entrant the training staff (Non ex Halton) referred to us as Brats!
I know the ex Halton Brats do not like other people to be called by this name.
Just thought I would throw it in the ring.
Phil.
Gentleman Aviator
In addition to Scaley (or possibly Scale E) Brats, I've heard the term "Patch Brats" for service children ....
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Hi... i was born in Malta in 1964, won't bore you with the many complicated issues this has thrown up for the duration of my entire life (lol) but i have had the same birth certificate problem haunt me through many challenges so imagine my surprise to finally track down my very own British b/c which had been held in..Portsmouth for my full existence...hopefully this helps, if not, it has to be out there and its a very strange feeling seeing it for the first time ..aged 44.
I had more trouble gaining my initial UK passport as my birth certificate states BMH Dhekalia, the gentleman of foreign persuasion who dealt with the case at the Newport passport office said I was a cypriot not British and thus not entitled to a passport... Right up until I waived my 1250 under his nose and pointed out that it was/is a British Military base...
Never had an issue entering the USA though with Dhekalia on my passport though.
Never had an issue entering the USA though with Dhekalia on my passport though.
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Number one son was born at Mtarfa (says so on his driving licence) , seem to recall that the birth was registerd at a maltese police station and with the Royal Navy admin people. There was a slight glicht at some stage with the pasport office, but after much loft searching and production of the original docs - no problem with his worldwide travels thereafter
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July 7 survivor faces deportation from Britain - Telegraph
An Army brat, buy still a consequence of stupid laws.
An Army brat, buy still a consequence of stupid laws.
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Ian16th,
I'm sure there will be some complex legislation that the Home Office can quote stating Prof T is in the wrong. However, it stinks, particularly in the light of other decisions on "asylum"!
My daughter was born overseas as a scaley; I will now be thoroughly checking her status even though I was previously informed that there will not be an issue in the future (she holds a British birth cert and one from the country of birth!)
It wouldn't be the first time the Government/civil service has shown such duplicity.
I'm sure there will be some complex legislation that the Home Office can quote stating Prof T is in the wrong. However, it stinks, particularly in the light of other decisions on "asylum"!
My daughter was born overseas as a scaley; I will now be thoroughly checking her status even though I was previously informed that there will not be an issue in the future (she holds a British birth cert and one from the country of birth!)
It wouldn't be the first time the Government/civil service has shown such duplicity.
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A significant part of these problems is that the current generation of not so civil servants are utterly unaware of the circumstances of married service life in the 50's and 60's.
Is this not a case for the Veterans Agency to be roped in to do a little liaising with the Home Office?
Is this not a case for the Veterans Agency to be roped in to do a little liaising with the Home Office?
Not so much a case of not so civil 'servants' as the computer it says NO'. Tick boxes rule, and it is much easier to deport law abiding tax paying members of the community than the many thousands who have gone off the radar and then claim human rights to stay if they are found.