Military IRT validity under EASA
The CAA interpretation of JAR FCL 1-185 is contrary to the intention of the 7 year rule. From the horses' mouth, the 7 years is only intended to exclude those who haven't held and been exercising the right of any IR. I suspect the motivation for this is to increase revenue through testing and examining.
I read with interest that the CAA had only appied to be the EASA licencing agency - the decision who gets the job has yet to be made. I sincerely hope that it isn't them. If it is, they won't be able to interpret EASA FCL for their own ends from July.
I read with interest that the CAA had only appied to be the EASA licencing agency - the decision who gets the job has yet to be made. I sincerely hope that it isn't them. If it is, they won't be able to interpret EASA FCL for their own ends from July.
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LASORS F4.1 b seem to put it in black and white:
Pre-requisite conditions for training
An applicant for the first type rating course for a MPA shall provide evidence that the following requirements have been met:-
a. have completed at least 70 hours as pilot-in- command of aeroplanes;
b. hold a current and valid multi-engine Instrument Rating (Aeroplanes). This requirement applies to a
first MPA type rating. For subsequent type ratings
the Instrument Rating may be renewed if necessary during the type rating course and skill test. A UK QSP(A) who has held a Green Instrument Rating
within the preceding 5 years is deemed to hold a ‘current and valid’ Instrument Rating.
Unless I'm missing something.....
Pre-requisite conditions for training
An applicant for the first type rating course for a MPA shall provide evidence that the following requirements have been met:-
a. have completed at least 70 hours as pilot-in- command of aeroplanes;
b. hold a current and valid multi-engine Instrument Rating (Aeroplanes). This requirement applies to a
first MPA type rating. For subsequent type ratings
the Instrument Rating may be renewed if necessary during the type rating course and skill test. A UK QSP(A) who has held a Green Instrument Rating
within the preceding 5 years is deemed to hold a ‘current and valid’ Instrument Rating.
Unless I'm missing something.....
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A question - what kind of 'certification' is required of logbook copies?
If the answer is stamp / Flt Cdr's sig on each page, I'm out of luck - I already left the service, and my discharging unit (LYE) no longer exists. What else is acceptable to the CAA?
Incidentally, does anybody know how one would go about obtaining a copy of their last F166 from their 5000, post-exit?
If the answer is stamp / Flt Cdr's sig on each page, I'm out of luck - I already left the service, and my discharging unit (LYE) no longer exists. What else is acceptable to the CAA?
Incidentally, does anybody know how one would go about obtaining a copy of their last F166 from their 5000, post-exit?
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Signature from Sqn Boss. Did your Sqn move to Bzn? Have you an old mate who can help? Amazingly, a mate took his actual logbook down to Gatwick (thinking that would obviate the need for Boss' signatures), and guess what, the CAA refused to accept it! Ludicrous.
Not sure what happens to 166/5000 on leaving the service...
Not sure what happens to 166/5000 on leaving the service...
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Curious, as I thought that our logbooks were signed by Flt Cdrs every month, and by the Boss every 3 months, and yearly on annual summaries. So the CAA don't accept the usual summary signatures?
Just so I get this right... does it have to be EVERY photocopy page signed, or just a sig block at the end, certifying total hrs / no of pages, etc?
Here's where matters get complicated.... my last Fg unit was overseas, and the boss has, I believe, changed since I was last there. I was posted back to the UK purely for discharge purposes, to LYE, and never saw anyone on the station except the discharge clerk and the (few) sigs I needed on my clearance chit!
Assuming I COULD get someone at BZZ to sign my copies, would the CAA simply reject them, since I have never been on a Sqn there? My only other option would be to post my copies off back overseas... for which I'm sure the new boss, not knowing me, would want to personally inspect my logbook to confirm what he is signing for. I know I would, in this day and age! Big postage costs, big delays, and the possibility of loss in the post all ensue from this.
The 166 I will need at some stage as evidence of holding a Green IR in the last 5 yrs. Having researched a little more, it appears that ex-servicemen's records are held at (or at least administered by) Cranwell - someone called the DPA Team, RAF Disclosures who live in Trenchard Hall. Anybody have any experience of trying to get hold of their records post-discharge from them?
Rock > Me < Hard Place, it would seem.
Sorry, firing off alot of daft questions here, and yes, it's all my own fault for not realising / sorting this out before I left, etc... but any advice welcomed!
Capt Widebody, many thanks for the link, etc.
Just so I get this right... does it have to be EVERY photocopy page signed, or just a sig block at the end, certifying total hrs / no of pages, etc?
Here's where matters get complicated.... my last Fg unit was overseas, and the boss has, I believe, changed since I was last there. I was posted back to the UK purely for discharge purposes, to LYE, and never saw anyone on the station except the discharge clerk and the (few) sigs I needed on my clearance chit!
Assuming I COULD get someone at BZZ to sign my copies, would the CAA simply reject them, since I have never been on a Sqn there? My only other option would be to post my copies off back overseas... for which I'm sure the new boss, not knowing me, would want to personally inspect my logbook to confirm what he is signing for. I know I would, in this day and age! Big postage costs, big delays, and the possibility of loss in the post all ensue from this.
The 166 I will need at some stage as evidence of holding a Green IR in the last 5 yrs. Having researched a little more, it appears that ex-servicemen's records are held at (or at least administered by) Cranwell - someone called the DPA Team, RAF Disclosures who live in Trenchard Hall. Anybody have any experience of trying to get hold of their records post-discharge from them?
Rock > Me < Hard Place, it would seem.
Sorry, firing off alot of daft questions here, and yes, it's all my own fault for not realising / sorting this out before I left, etc... but any advice welcomed!
Capt Widebody, many thanks for the link, etc.
Last edited by TheInquisitor; 19th Jan 2012 at 00:53.
As Captain Widebody has said, it is important that each relevant page is certified. Also, that Section 2 (Special Flying Qualifications and Renewals) and Section 3 (Instrument Ratings) clearly include your name.
Some of the CAA licence production team are quite new to the game and may not understand the full range of military terminology. When I applied for my ATPL in 2002, I had a call querying that Section 2 of my logbook didn't include the words 'Combat Ready'. I pointed out that CR(S) was a higher qualification; however, no-one had actually briefed the CAA about the system, so I had to fax them the relevant extracts from GASOs as proof.
Hardest part of the whole process was filling out the 'Flying Experience in Military Aircraft' section of the form - how I wished I hadn't bothered to log those few trips in the Dominie, Beaver and Meteor T7 in the 1970s!
Some of the CAA licence production team are quite new to the game and may not understand the full range of military terminology. When I applied for my ATPL in 2002, I had a call querying that Section 2 of my logbook didn't include the words 'Combat Ready'. I pointed out that CR(S) was a higher qualification; however, no-one had actually briefed the CAA about the system, so I had to fax them the relevant extracts from GASOs as proof.
Hardest part of the whole process was filling out the 'Flying Experience in Military Aircraft' section of the form - how I wished I hadn't bothered to log those few trips in the Dominie, Beaver and Meteor T7 in the 1970s!
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Something that I think is worth mentioning is that the MCC course is actually quite good, and avoiding it might not be the most wise option.
I had an MCC exemption certificate from years ago, but chose to use an ELC plus the cash for leaving the RN to do the Oxford MCC course just before my BA sim check.
The first bit is like the Flight Safety/Authorisors course which was ok, then there is lots of sim time in a 737-400 and I was taught by excellent ex RAF instructors. There are differences in how the civvy world does stuff.
I reckon that that sim time got me through the BA sim check. Now in the pool.
A point to ponder.
I had an MCC exemption certificate from years ago, but chose to use an ELC plus the cash for leaving the RN to do the Oxford MCC course just before my BA sim check.
The first bit is like the Flight Safety/Authorisors course which was ok, then there is lots of sim time in a 737-400 and I was taught by excellent ex RAF instructors. There are differences in how the civvy world does stuff.
I reckon that that sim time got me through the BA sim check. Now in the pool.
A point to ponder.
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Interesting point, Canute... How much sim time, and were you able to log it, and if so, in what operating capacity? Would that be able to be counted towards licence issue?
EDIT: Just read OAAs website, it's 20hrs and CPL is a prerequisite, so that answers part of my question.
EDIT: Just read OAAs website, it's 20hrs and CPL is a prerequisite, so that answers part of my question.
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Does anyone know if I need to photocopy and have signed each and every page of my logbook up to 500 hours, or can I get a copy of the last monthly summary and/or annual summary instead? The boss is going to get pretty pissed if he has to sign off 30 pages!
