Scottish Independence
Joined: May 2011
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From: Malkin Tower
"There was huge Irish immigration to the West of Scotland in both world wars. Would Salmond regard their descendants (among whom I include myself) as Scots?"
If I remember history correctly, the Scotttii were an Irish group who moved into present Western Scotland as part of the Dal Riata in the 6th/7th centuries. In the process they assimilated / killed / exterminated the native Picts. Then the Norwegiian Vikings came along on the west coast and took over the leadership and probably dumped a lot of male genes into the population pool.... Of course the Vikings in turn were later ousted by / subsumed into the "English" (for which you can read Normans and their mercenaries) invades from the south
So you could regard the Irish movement into Scotland as being just a reprise of their earlier invasion and genocide of the Picts (without the slaughter)
The real BIG question though, is whose money is it? If Scotland go their own way, will they adopt their own currency? Or will they join the Euro? If they stay with sterling they would be at the financial mercy of the Bank of England
If I remember history correctly, the Scotttii were an Irish group who moved into present Western Scotland as part of the Dal Riata in the 6th/7th centuries. In the process they assimilated / killed / exterminated the native Picts. Then the Norwegiian Vikings came along on the west coast and took over the leadership and probably dumped a lot of male genes into the population pool.... Of course the Vikings in turn were later ousted by / subsumed into the "English" (for which you can read Normans and their mercenaries) invades from the south
So you could regard the Irish movement into Scotland as being just a reprise of their earlier invasion and genocide of the Picts (without the slaughter)
The real BIG question though, is whose money is it? If Scotland go their own way, will they adopt their own currency? Or will they join the Euro? If they stay with sterling they would be at the financial mercy of the Bank of England
Last edited by jamesdevice; 30th October 2011 at 12:52.
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: N. Spain
Would the Western Isles wish to be part of an independent Scotland or would they secede and seek Union with a Scandinavian Nation?
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Not far from EGPH.
Apparently, the Salmondistas are at last cobbling together an independence manifesto...
Bye, bye England? SNP plans closer Scandinavian ties after independence - UK Politics - UK - The Independent
Salmond is expected to demand 9% of all UK defence assets - presumably that doesn't include the SSBN fleet that he finds so repugnant. But 9% of bugger all is....?
So they think they can get their hands on a squadron's worth of P-3s for £29m a pop - that would be quite a bargain?
And they think the Royal Regiment of Scotland could be extracted from the British Army and form a new Scottish Army - hmmm, is someone confusing "army" with "infantry"?
Bye, bye England? SNP plans closer Scandinavian ties after independence - UK Politics - UK - The Independent
Salmond is expected to demand 9% of all UK defence assets - presumably that doesn't include the SSBN fleet that he finds so repugnant. But 9% of bugger all is....?
So they think they can get their hands on a squadron's worth of P-3s for £29m a pop - that would be quite a bargain?
And they think the Royal Regiment of Scotland could be extracted from the British Army and form a new Scottish Army - hmmm, is someone confusing "army" with "infantry"?
Tabs please!
Joined: Jun 2004
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: Biffins Bridge
Independence is inevitable when we have more pandas than Tory MP's.
The Scots and the Scandihooligans have a lot in common, a dry wit, respect for academia and the ability to scare the bejeezus out of any would-be aggressor. I think it would be a marriage made in heaven although I must confess to having started early by marrying a Baltic babe.
The Scots and the Scandihooligans have a lot in common, a dry wit, respect for academia and the ability to scare the bejeezus out of any would-be aggressor. I think it would be a marriage made in heaven although I must confess to having started early by marrying a Baltic babe.
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
"Salmond is expected to demand 9% of all UK defence assets"
Give him the Harriers instead of selling them to the US
Gets Salmond off everyone's back, give's him a current working platform,
Sharkey Ward will be happy and might trundle off to Scotland
And then sell them all the extra bits and pieces - spare parts, missiles,
bombs etc at hugely inflated prices.
Give him the Harriers instead of selling them to the US
Gets Salmond off everyone's back, give's him a current working platform,
Sharkey Ward will be happy and might trundle off to Scotland
And then sell them all the extra bits and pieces - spare parts, missiles,
bombs etc at hugely inflated prices.
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 129
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From: London
To me it does not seem in Scotland's interest to create an unnecessary border between itself and it's biggest trade partner by far (England) with independent currencies, regulations and bureaucracy.
I also wonder how much it will costs to completely divide a highly integrated country which has existed for 300 years. As well as the costs to Scotland to set up and run all those new embassies, new DVLAs, etc etc.
By my calculations the increase in GDP by keeping it's own oil would be in the region of £1000 a year per head. Certainly not something one would turn down but not something that is going to turn Scotland into the Socialist Eutopia of Norway either.... And that oil isn't going to last forever.
All seems very simplistic and short sighted, which is the exact reason i'm terrified people will actually vote for it.
I also wonder how much it will costs to completely divide a highly integrated country which has existed for 300 years. As well as the costs to Scotland to set up and run all those new embassies, new DVLAs, etc etc.
By my calculations the increase in GDP by keeping it's own oil would be in the region of £1000 a year per head. Certainly not something one would turn down but not something that is going to turn Scotland into the Socialist Eutopia of Norway either.... And that oil isn't going to last forever.
All seems very simplistic and short sighted, which is the exact reason i'm terrified people will actually vote for it.
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Norfolk England
Not much of a story really, but an interesting link to lack of Nimrods and Kinloss closure in today's Scotsman:
Russian ships in the Moray Firth ... and not a Nimrod in sight - Politics - Scotsman.com
JB
Russian ships in the Moray Firth ... and not a Nimrod in sight - Politics - Scotsman.com
JB
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: UK
Cameron’s pre-emptive strike aims to torpedo plan for ‘joint armed forces’
Of course, an early referendum would also allow properly informed decisions to be made regarding the relocation of troops returning from Germany, not to mention allowing a clear-out of MPs from Westminster that wouldn't be needed. Overall, quite a masterstroke. Perhaps all ships currently being built in Scotland could become Scottish national assets that they could own and pay for; that might solve a few of MODs problems and balance any loss of oil revenue. 
THE war of words between Edinburgh and London over Prime Minister David Cameron’s bid to control the timing and wording of a referendum on independence brings to the fore the complex issue of future cross-border defence arrangements.
An important side-effect of Mr Cameron’s pre-emptive strike would be to torpedo the SNP’s proposal to allow Scotland to establish “joint armed forces” with the rump UK’s military.
By making the argument an all-or-nothing division between the status quo and total independence, Mr Cameron is clearly trying to undermine some of the “nuanced messages” the SNP has been developing to show how Scotland could establish a new defence relationship with London.
By limiting the question on the ballot paper to a simple Yes or No to independence, Mr Cameron is trying to remove the option of allowing the Edinburgh devolved administration to have de facto financial independence with the UK. This is the so-called “third question”. Under this constitutional arrangement, the UK armed forces would remain largely unchanged under the control of the London government and the defence issue would be largely neutralised.
However, in a straight Yes or No framed ballot, the issue of defence will be high on the agenda and the SNP would have to flesh out in greater detail their idea of a joint Scottish-UK military structure.
Over the next four years the Ministry of Defence will be finalising plans for the next generation of Royal Navy frigates and Mr Cameron will undoubtedly be dropping big hints that they will not be built in an independent Scotland.
An important side-effect of Mr Cameron’s pre-emptive strike would be to torpedo the SNP’s proposal to allow Scotland to establish “joint armed forces” with the rump UK’s military.
By making the argument an all-or-nothing division between the status quo and total independence, Mr Cameron is clearly trying to undermine some of the “nuanced messages” the SNP has been developing to show how Scotland could establish a new defence relationship with London.
By limiting the question on the ballot paper to a simple Yes or No to independence, Mr Cameron is trying to remove the option of allowing the Edinburgh devolved administration to have de facto financial independence with the UK. This is the so-called “third question”. Under this constitutional arrangement, the UK armed forces would remain largely unchanged under the control of the London government and the defence issue would be largely neutralised.
However, in a straight Yes or No framed ballot, the issue of defence will be high on the agenda and the SNP would have to flesh out in greater detail their idea of a joint Scottish-UK military structure.
Over the next four years the Ministry of Defence will be finalising plans for the next generation of Royal Navy frigates and Mr Cameron will undoubtedly be dropping big hints that they will not be built in an independent Scotland.
Last edited by LFFC; 10th January 2012 at 09:31.