Scottish Independence
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,047
Received 2,920 Likes
on
1,249 Posts
We will 'ave less of that type of talk Lightning mate, my Mums house is some 100 yards north of that pile of stones, and we are English.....
As our illustrious friend appears to have pulled his posts, he mentioned that the UK fishing fleet has long since gone and the grounds are being picked clean by the likes of the Spanish and Portuguese.
One would like to point out that something that is often skimmed over by the shouters and doubters (including those still in the said industry), is the fact the UK fishing fleets have gone simply because a lot of ship owners decided to make a quick buck and get out business sold their quotas to the fishing boat owners of the countries mentioned.....
As our illustrious friend appears to have pulled his posts, he mentioned that the UK fishing fleet has long since gone and the grounds are being picked clean by the likes of the Spanish and Portuguese.
One would like to point out that something that is often skimmed over by the shouters and doubters (including those still in the said industry), is the fact the UK fishing fleets have gone simply because a lot of ship owners decided to make a quick buck and get out business sold their quotas to the fishing boat owners of the countries mentioned.....
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Age: 49
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To put that figure into perspective, I'm pretty sure the same report indictated UK plc had run up over £700 billion of debt over the same period. The same department responsible for producing those statistics have also shown Scotland to be a net financial contributor to the UK.
I will be candid, I am a fat civvy, that beyond previously providing expert advice to DE on certain maintenance issues with runways and a couple of flying lessons, have zero aviation experience, so if I say something stupid feel free to point it out.
I was picking up on the point that Scotland is a net producer. I cannot find the statistics that have been alluded to by D88, but it does match my memory of things I have seen in the past - what I was wondering about is the variation in Gross Value Added (GVA: a measure goods and services -immediate consumption) in the UK, I have looked at Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom and according to this England has the highest GVA, followed by Scotland.
If my understanding is correct this would mean that both England and Scotland produce more than they consume (as if England's GVA is higher than Scotland's, then logically if Scotland is a net producer so it England), and while I lack the statistics to back it up, you could conclude that as a union Scotland and England would be better off without NI or Wales.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NOTTINGHAM
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah bu**er! Being a Scot but, more importantly a proud Brit, and having served my queen for 40 years but never served 'north of the border' I had chosen to ignore this worthless debate until a mate contacted me to draw my attention to SAMXXV's rantings (I like a good laugh) only to discover that I was too late! However, reading between the lines made it somehow even funnier!
Alex Salmond, love him or hate him, is an astute politician who is playing his cards very cleverly! I doubt he actually wants independence but he does want to hang on to power! That he will achieve if he continues to nurture those xenophobic Scots who read their history from the lids of shortbread tins!
Scotland is a great and beautiful country, a former industrial powerhouse and land of scholastic achievement. As I was taught at school in Glasgow many moons ago when its shipbuilding industry was alive but in rapid decline, its wealth and future lay in whisky and tourism. Gas and oil may have given Scotland the thought of future wealth but the reserves of both make neither it nor the United Kingdom equivalent to Saudi Arabia in terms of 'black gold wealth'. Whisky and tourism will remain its only real and sustainable life blood!
There was a very good reason why the Union was formed in 1707 and I can see no reason why any sane person would wish to change it in the future.
If Salmond was daft enough to call for a referendum, those who live in Scotland will not vote in a majority for full independence just as those who live in England will not vote to cast it from the Union!
Only an opinion.
Foldie
PS. The only true fight takes place at either Twickenham or Murrayfield and afterwards we drink!
Alex Salmond, love him or hate him, is an astute politician who is playing his cards very cleverly! I doubt he actually wants independence but he does want to hang on to power! That he will achieve if he continues to nurture those xenophobic Scots who read their history from the lids of shortbread tins!
Scotland is a great and beautiful country, a former industrial powerhouse and land of scholastic achievement. As I was taught at school in Glasgow many moons ago when its shipbuilding industry was alive but in rapid decline, its wealth and future lay in whisky and tourism. Gas and oil may have given Scotland the thought of future wealth but the reserves of both make neither it nor the United Kingdom equivalent to Saudi Arabia in terms of 'black gold wealth'. Whisky and tourism will remain its only real and sustainable life blood!
There was a very good reason why the Union was formed in 1707 and I can see no reason why any sane person would wish to change it in the future.
If Salmond was daft enough to call for a referendum, those who live in Scotland will not vote in a majority for full independence just as those who live in England will not vote to cast it from the Union!
Only an opinion.
Foldie
PS. The only true fight takes place at either Twickenham or Murrayfield and afterwards we drink!
Last edited by foldingwings; 26th Oct 2011 at 15:04. Reason: Ah bu**er! No matter how many times you proof read it............... Thanks, HTB
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Over the hill (and far away)
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Foldie
Write out one hundred times "the possessive pronoun does not have an apostrophe" (unless it's different north of the border).
Mister B
NB (to self) the price of pedantry is eternal vigilance!
Write out one hundred times "the possessive pronoun does not have an apostrophe" (unless it's different north of the border).
Mister B
NB (to self) the price of pedantry is eternal vigilance!
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This referendum has batted back and forth for so long and I for one hope it never comes to pass - even as a proud Scot!!
The one thing that has been missed, and would defiantly fill the Scottish coffers, is the new black Gold ie WATER lots of it north of the border handily stored in natural reservoirs. Many may laugh and deride me but in years to come this scarce resource will become more and more important and easily transportable. Something to think about in the debate I know there has been serious discussion over the merit of laying pipes to ship water down to the parched South from the dreich North!
The one thing that has been missed, and would defiantly fill the Scottish coffers, is the new black Gold ie WATER lots of it north of the border handily stored in natural reservoirs. Many may laugh and deride me but in years to come this scarce resource will become more and more important and easily transportable. Something to think about in the debate I know there has been serious discussion over the merit of laying pipes to ship water down to the parched South from the dreich North!
the gallant Mr Croft was awarded a Medal and then a Cross - would that be a reflection of higher status of RSM over SSM?
In the time when the services had medals for the ORs and crosses for officers (pre 1993), the cut off came at Warrant Officer rank, or in the case of the army, Warrant Officer class 1. An RSM (or equivalent depending of the arm of service) was a WO1 and would be awarded the Military Cross, a Squadron Sergeant Major was a WO2 rank, and as such would qualify for the award of the Distinguished Conduct Medal or Military Medal. Same rules applied to the RAF, with a lot of WW2 aircrew winning the DFM as sergeants or flight sergeants and the the DFC as Warrant Officers.
The oddest example of this I came across was when I met Warrant Officer John Phillips, Royal Engineers, who had been awarded the Distinguished Service Cross, normally a naval officer's award, for bomb disposal on HMS Argonaut during the Falklands War.
Lightning Mate, it's not just Nutloose's mum who lives there, there must be several thousand sheep who live in that big triangular chunk of England which is North of Hadrian's wall. May not amount to much, but I don't think we should be handing it and them back to the Jocks!
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Devon
Age: 71
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Never mind about the black gold , haven't they just found a huge discovery of the real thing allegedly worth 100s of millions of British Pounds in rock in a mountain in Jockland somewhere ? No wonder they want to keep it to themselves .
Guest
Posts: n/a
sidewayspeak
Think that through to its logical conclusion.
Next you better bin Cornwall, bunch of spongers never pull their own weight.
Then the North, useless unemployed types.
Pretty soon there is just London, and guess what, London is only what it is because it is the capital of the UK. By itself it is just a grubby city full of dull w@nkers, and remarkably enough, many of them are Scots who run half the city and political establishment of London.
Scotland gets more spent per person than England, yes, if you average it out. But it is a lot less simple than that. All the rural/underpopulated areas of the UK get more spent per capita. It is obvious why. Every gas pipe/electricity line/bus route/bin run has less people per mile so is less efficient.
Scotland has less people per sq mile than England so the economys of scale are not there. Does this mean that Scottish people have a better standard of service from the Councils than England?
No.
That Scotland chooses to distribute its budget differently from England is their choice. They take hits in other areas.
The UK currently lives off the legacy of our years of empire, and the Scottish more than held their own in building that empire, both in terms of Industry and blood and treasure. Run a very quick google on Scottish inventions or scientists, or Scottish military and you will see that the idea of Scotland as a parasite on England is very misguided. In fact, considering the relative populations, it could well be seen the other way.
This is standard little England crap
Anything the Scots have done well is British, but anything that is not so good is Scottish
Think that through to its logical conclusion.
Next you better bin Cornwall, bunch of spongers never pull their own weight.
Then the North, useless unemployed types.
Pretty soon there is just London, and guess what, London is only what it is because it is the capital of the UK. By itself it is just a grubby city full of dull w@nkers, and remarkably enough, many of them are Scots who run half the city and political establishment of London.
Scotland gets more spent per person than England, yes, if you average it out. But it is a lot less simple than that. All the rural/underpopulated areas of the UK get more spent per capita. It is obvious why. Every gas pipe/electricity line/bus route/bin run has less people per mile so is less efficient.
Scotland has less people per sq mile than England so the economys of scale are not there. Does this mean that Scottish people have a better standard of service from the Councils than England?
No.
That Scotland chooses to distribute its budget differently from England is their choice. They take hits in other areas.
The UK currently lives off the legacy of our years of empire, and the Scottish more than held their own in building that empire, both in terms of Industry and blood and treasure. Run a very quick google on Scottish inventions or scientists, or Scottish military and you will see that the idea of Scotland as a parasite on England is very misguided. In fact, considering the relative populations, it could well be seen the other way.
This is standard little England crap
Anything the Scots have done well is British, but anything that is not so good is Scottish
Tourist
You miss my point. It is not all about the money. Quite simply, like Georgia/Latvia/Lithuainia/Serbia/Bosnia etc etc I would like to be a little Englander in England. I have no desire to be part of Europe. I have no desire to have Scottish/Irish/Welsh politicians dictating to England. I have not criticised the Scots or said that anything they do is bad. Merely that the Scots dislike the English. I have no desire to be part of a Union where we are actively disliked.
I don't think that that is racist, or something to be criticised like I am some sort of tattooed scumbag. I just want England to be English and proud.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Merely that the Scots dislike the English"
Have you asked them all then?
A Scot who didn't know better might be forgiven for thinking after reading this thread that all English people dislike Scots. In just the same way it is easy to find Rab C Nesbit type Scots. It does not mean that they are the norm, jsy that they are vocal.
"I have no desire to have Scottish/Irish/Welsh politicians dictating to England"
How can Scots dictate to anyone?
It's a democracy. There are not that many Scottish constituancies.
Have you asked them all then?
A Scot who didn't know better might be forgiven for thinking after reading this thread that all English people dislike Scots. In just the same way it is easy to find Rab C Nesbit type Scots. It does not mean that they are the norm, jsy that they are vocal.
"I have no desire to have Scottish/Irish/Welsh politicians dictating to England"
How can Scots dictate to anyone?
It's a democracy. There are not that many Scottish constituancies.
Last edited by Tourist; 26th Oct 2011 at 17:47.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NOTTINGHAM
Posts: 758
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
granfer,
I think its been known about for a long time (Victorians) and has been mined previously - but now it's to come out big style!
Tourist, I don't often agree with you but:
'Scots dislike the English' - He didn't ask me!
Why, I've been married to 2 Sassy b*tches and whilst I don't have much time or love for the first one now - the second Mrs Foldie is an absolute English Rose who I 'jist cannae gerrenuff o'!
Foldie
a huge discovery of the real thing
Tourist, I don't often agree with you but:
'Scots dislike the English' - He didn't ask me!
Why, I've been married to 2 Sassy b*tches and whilst I don't have much time or love for the first one now - the second Mrs Foldie is an absolute English Rose who I 'jist cannae gerrenuff o'!
Foldie
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,047
Received 2,920 Likes
on
1,249 Posts
Tankertrashnav
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW England
Age: 64
Posts: 951
Lightning Mate, it's not just Nutloose's mum who lives there, there must be several thousand sheep who live in that big triangular chunk of England which is North of Hadrian's wall. May not amount to much, but I don't think we should be handing it and them back to the Jocks!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW England
Age: 64
Posts: 951
Lightning Mate, it's not just Nutloose's mum who lives there, there must be several thousand sheep who live in that big triangular chunk of England which is North of Hadrian's wall. May not amount to much, but I don't think we should be handing it and them back to the Jocks!
I feel like I have just been put on par with a bunch off sheep........
Ooops..... better not mention the par word, it is alien to Buster
So what would have happened to SAMXXV? Would the mods have gone round to his house and taken him away into the woods or something?
I promise I'll be good
FB
I promise I'll be good
FB
Especially after the first thing Broon did as chancellor was to sell off a large tranche of the stuff from the Bank of England at bargain basement prices.
sidewayspeak:-
There are 650 MPs in the House of Commons. Of this total 18 are from Northern Ireland, 59 from Scotland and 40 from Wales. That means 533 of these MPs represent constituencies in England. Who's dictating to whom? This is especially pertinent at the moment considering not one Conservative MP was returned from a seat in Scotland.
Also I understand that the SNP actually bans it's MPs from voting on legislative matters which do not affect Scotland, thus negating their impact with respect to the West Lothian Question.
"I have no desire to have Scottish/Irish/Welsh politicians dictating to England"
Also I understand that the SNP actually bans it's MPs from voting on legislative matters which do not affect Scotland, thus negating their impact with respect to the West Lothian Question.
d88
My point is that there is no state pension pot - all state pensions are paid out of current taxation so from day one of independence all Scottish state pensions - and those Scottish public sector pensions that are not funded ( eg All mil pensions) will also have to come out of Scottish taxation - a nightmare waiting to happen.
HF
Scots have paid in to the pension pot from the inception of the welfare state, so are perfectly entitled to get an equivalent share. Longer term, pensions is a conundrum affecting every western country, so the same argument can be leveled outwith the borders of Scotland.
HF