Your husband will never be promoted if you wear trousers
And spurs with Mess Kit, I hope?
Some of you might know a Scottish Engineer who still wears No 1s almost all the time, and in Main Building, never, ever took off his suit coat (not Jacket - that's what potatos wear) at his desk. I am also reliably informed that this character - in the best possible use of this word - does wear a monacle with his Mess attire. Standards, eh?
Some of you might know a Scottish Engineer who still wears No 1s almost all the time, and in Main Building, never, ever took off his suit coat (not Jacket - that's what potatos wear) at his desk. I am also reliably informed that this character - in the best possible use of this word - does wear a monacle with his Mess attire. Standards, eh?
Whenurhappy - According to Wiki, the fasces go back to ancient Roman times:
Fasces, a plurale tantum, from the Latin word fascis, meaning "bundle") are a bundle of wooden sticks with an axe blade emerging from the center, which is an image that traditionally symbolizes summary power and jurisdiction, and/or "strength through unity"...
Origin and symbolism
The traditional Roman fasces consisted of a bundle of birch rods, tied together with a red leather ribbon into a cylinder, and often including a bronze axe (or sometimes two) amongst the rods, with the blade(s) on the side, projecting from the bundle. They were carried by the lictors who accompanied the magistrates. The axe often represents the power over life or death through the death penalty, although after the laws of the twelve tables, no Roman magistrate could summarily execute a Roman citizen.[3] It was used as a symbol of the Roman Republic in many circumstances, including being carried in processions, much the way a flag might be carried today...
Origin and symbolism
The traditional Roman fasces consisted of a bundle of birch rods, tied together with a red leather ribbon into a cylinder, and often including a bronze axe (or sometimes two) amongst the rods, with the blade(s) on the side, projecting from the bundle. They were carried by the lictors who accompanied the magistrates. The axe often represents the power over life or death through the death penalty, although after the laws of the twelve tables, no Roman magistrate could summarily execute a Roman citizen.[3] It was used as a symbol of the Roman Republic in many circumstances, including being carried in processions, much the way a flag might be carried today...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South of Old Warden
Age: 87
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Probably more appropriate in the other ranks mess as she wasn't wearing any underwear 
Never got to hear what was said at the Captain's 'debrief'
Never got to hear what was said at the Captain's 'debrief'
FODPLOD, yes I know all that - but why are they affixed on British (and some Commonwealth) dangly bits? It's not a symbol normally asossicated with things British. After all, what have the Romans ever doen for us?
In Italy the symbol is (almost) universally associated with the Fascist Era and therefore scorned, apart from in the North, where they quite like symbols such as this. Along with wearing black shirts at political rallies...
In Italy the symbol is (almost) universally associated with the Fascist Era and therefore scorned, apart from in the North, where they quite like symbols such as this. Along with wearing black shirts at political rallies...
Last edited by Whenurhappy; 17th Oct 2011 at 14:18.
Whenurhappy - I suspect it is all part of the universal martial tradition associated with the baton presented to senior commanders which originated in ancient Egypt, Rome and possibly Sparta. Like Mussolini's fascists with the fasces, Hitler's nazis appropriated the baton big time.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
WUH, I think indeed you are correct, tights as well. There was a time, around 1967 or so, when the scheme was to have two No 1s, a best for parades and the second best as working dress. That way you would get a new No 1 every 2-3 years.
It never occurred to me that AMP might have been planning on a post-retirement job with Gieves.
It never occurred to me that AMP might have been planning on a post-retirement job with Gieves.
PN -but around then we also had the tailored barathea No2 as working dress and the V-Force had the thing with zipped pockets - cannot remember what that uniform was known as.
Registered User **
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Botswana & Greece
Age: 68
Posts: 940
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ken will probably complain about us getting away from the original subject but how many of us could still get into the no.5 after 16 years or more? I could if I held my breath. But my wife can still fit into it 
OK Ken!
OK Ken!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Wander, that was the point.
The No 2 for officers was declared non-uniform around 1962. You were allowed to wear out your existing uniform. There was a rush to buy barathea No 2s, the more extrovert u/t pilots opted for salmon pink lining :
Naturally these No 2 were still in use in the late 60s.
The V-force zuit suit was also available to Lightning and PR9 crews. It was designed as a uniform to be worn over g-pants and an AVS. The Mk 1 crews didn't wear g-trousers and were never entitled to the zuit suit which was actually a flying suit.
They eventually disappeared from stores in the middle-late 60s. When I went to Cyprus the hot rumour was there were still some to be had. I nipped along to stores but they only had zuit suits for gorillas - over 6 foot and over 200 lbs. Not deterred I said I would have one. The Paki tailor then modified it losing several inches in all directions until it was a good fit.
In fact even the original ones in UK were usually taken to the tailors for judicious tweaking.
The No 2 for officers was declared non-uniform around 1962. You were allowed to wear out your existing uniform. There was a rush to buy barathea No 2s, the more extrovert u/t pilots opted for salmon pink lining :
Naturally these No 2 were still in use in the late 60s.
The V-force zuit suit was also available to Lightning and PR9 crews. It was designed as a uniform to be worn over g-pants and an AVS. The Mk 1 crews didn't wear g-trousers and were never entitled to the zuit suit which was actually a flying suit.
They eventually disappeared from stores in the middle-late 60s. When I went to Cyprus the hot rumour was there were still some to be had. I nipped along to stores but they only had zuit suits for gorillas - over 6 foot and over 200 lbs. Not deterred I said I would have one. The Paki tailor then modified it losing several inches in all directions until it was a good fit.
In fact even the original ones in UK were usually taken to the tailors for judicious tweaking.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Xascot, I still have the one and only SD hat, only ever had one No 5 which lasted almost 40 years and then sold on eBay.
Registered User **
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Botswana & Greece
Age: 68
Posts: 940
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still have the one and only SD hat, only ever had one
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Whyte House
Age: 95
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The peak of my SD became so frayed I had to colour the cardboard inside with a blue biro. It took many years of being stuffed into various nooks and crannies on Albert to get it into such a ***t state.
A very senior officer came to visit the chaps in Labuan in 1966. Being fairly hot and no airconditioning he was sweating a bit when he came to the crewroom. We all stood up, he took his hat off, leaving a wide band of leather that was the lining around his head.
The peak of my SD became so frayed I had to colour the cardboard inside with a blue biro. It took many years of being stuffed into various nooks and crannies on Albert to get it into such a ***t state
Mind you, when I found that I needed a decent SD cap in 2003 (
), I bought one from stores for less than £15. I queried the price, but they assured me that it was correct...
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exascot
There is no way the valet would have got it wrong, these guys are very switched on regarding military dress.
A few years ago I met HRH at a Reserve Forces display; he was in an RAF uniform. As he approached me I noticed that instead of the light blue shirt, he was wearing one which was actually very small dark blue and white checks. From a distance you couldn't tell, but I had great difficulty in concentrating on what he was saying to me after that.
cc
There is no way the valet would have got it wrong, these guys are very switched on regarding military dress.
A few years ago I met HRH at a Reserve Forces display; he was in an RAF uniform. As he approached me I noticed that instead of the light blue shirt, he was wearing one which was actually very small dark blue and white checks. From a distance you couldn't tell, but I had great difficulty in concentrating on what he was saying to me after that.
cc
that would be the blue/grey shirt
I still have the collar studs somewhere.
Certainly at RAFC Cranwell, as Haraka will recall, we used to have to spend our few shillings on detached Van Heusen collars to go with the itchy stores-issued shirts. A brand-new one was essential before the delights of the Ferris drill competiton.. Fortunately we'd had detached collars at school, so the wretched things were quite familiar to me....
Those blue/grey shirts were identical to police shirts of the time. The late Tony Smith (RIP) was once driving his blue Hillman Hunter back from White Waltham wearing his copper's shirt and black tie - looking very much like a Met rozzer. Someone in front of him wouldn't get out of the way, so Tony flashed his lights, put on his SD cap and pointed to the kerb... The other driver dutifully pulled over - only for Tony to speed past giving him a Churchillian gesture! Happy times, eh Haraka?
But who remembers that awful duck egg blue/green shirt which came out after the copper's shirt and before the wedgewood blue one (in about 1970)? It wouldn't even last one day's normal use before looking very grubby...
Back to the thread - at the so-called meet and greet for our Buccaneer course in 1976, the Wg Cdr's wife asked the wife of one of the course navigators "And which course are you on?".
Mistake. Big mistake. Huge!
She'd asked a fiery little Scots lass the wrong question - and was instantly put right. She wasn't on any course, her husband was! Meanwhile her hubby watched with pride. But it didn't do him any long term harm - he was the only ab-initio navigator to graduate from the course.
Fortunately we'd had detached collars at school, so the wretched things were quite familiar to me....Those blue/grey shirts were identical to police shirts of the time. The late Tony Smith (RIP) was once driving his blue Hillman Hunter back from White Waltham wearing his copper's shirt and black tie - looking very much like a Met rozzer. Someone in front of him wouldn't get out of the way, so Tony flashed his lights, put on his SD cap and pointed to the kerb... The other driver dutifully pulled over - only for Tony to speed past giving him a Churchillian gesture! Happy times, eh Haraka?
But who remembers that awful duck egg blue/green shirt which came out after the copper's shirt and before the wedgewood blue one (in about 1970)? It wouldn't even last one day's normal use before looking very grubby...
Back to the thread - at the so-called meet and greet for our Buccaneer course in 1976, the Wg Cdr's wife asked the wife of one of the course navigators "And which course are you on?".
Mistake. Big mistake. Huge!
She'd asked a fiery little Scots lass the wrong question - and was instantly put right. She wasn't on any course, her husband was! Meanwhile her hubby watched with pride. But it didn't do him any long term harm - he was the only ab-initio navigator to graduate from the course.