Aircrew side arms
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BEagle, reminds me of when they kitted Mrs PN out in cabbage kit and gave her an SMG. She managed to get a fair number of rounds on target. Only problem, it wasn't her target.
And of course you watched THE film last night?
And of course you watched THE film last night?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I believe they didn't. You were not permitted to shoot non-combatants and many downed aircrew in Europe were caught in the first instance by civilians. I seem to recall that it was different in SEA.
And of course you watched THE film last night?
I understand a few WW2 aircrew flew with a revolver stuffed into a flying boot.
''Why? Why not unload them by hand?''
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Probably a little older than 19 though!
Any short barrelled weapon on auto scares the **** out of me as after the first couple of rounds have gone, unless you're an expert, it becomes more a matter of trying to control where the barrel is going rather than hitting any target. Watch out low flying aircraft!
Quote: The Walther came in after a coupe of Falklands war ejectees left them behind after the weight of the Browning broke the weedy strap of the holster. Someone though it better to buy new guns than buy stronger holsters. The first unit to get the James Bond toy was 1 Sqn. They all turned up to the range to do thier training wearing DJs
Er, not true. The pilots concerned merely stuffed the pistol into the leg pocket of the immersion suits. They landed, surprise surprise, minus immersion suit leg pockets. I suspect the same would happen to a lighter gun.
The third RAF pilot to be shot down strapped the holster on under his mae west, and it stayed with him.
Er, not true. The pilots concerned merely stuffed the pistol into the leg pocket of the immersion suits. They landed, surprise surprise, minus immersion suit leg pockets. I suspect the same would happen to a lighter gun.
The third RAF pilot to be shot down strapped the holster on under his mae west, and it stayed with him.
Fareastdriver
As I thought. You were not obliged to cycle all the rounds through the breech as you first claimed. You choose to do so. You also, in an attempt to belittle this SNCO in front of your peers, wilfully ignored the correct drills for the weapon. Not exactly a textbook Load, Unload or Make safe was it?
I'm sure the SNCO, who would likely have handled weapons once a year on GDT, not on a daily basis as you would have in Aldergrove was suitably impressed. It is also possible that as a SNCO he would have had SMG on his green card and not SLR. He possibly had not handled an SLR for several years.
Given the RAFs attitude to the control of ammunition I totally agree with his insistence on individually counting the rounds. He after all would be signing for taking custody of your weapon, 2 magazines and 40 rounds of live ammunition. How was he to know that is what he was receiving if he didn't check it physically?
At Aldergrove did you receive the magazines pre-loaded? Did you hand them back in loaded? Or did you, like us mere mortals, stand in the shelter to the left of the load/unload point and remove the rounds and put them in the little trays, point up so the armourer could check that all the rounds were indeed live and not blanks?
Incidentally having served 2 years in Aldergrove and been qualified on the SLR and SLP and in later years the SA80, if I had seen anyone do what you did and I outranked them, I would have done my damnedest to get them charged.
I chose that method so as to impress on this senior non-commishioned officer that, despite his apparant attitude, he was a member of a fighting service and as so should be familiar with things that go BANG
I'm sure the SNCO, who would likely have handled weapons once a year on GDT, not on a daily basis as you would have in Aldergrove was suitably impressed. It is also possible that as a SNCO he would have had SMG on his green card and not SLR. He possibly had not handled an SLR for several years.
Given the RAFs attitude to the control of ammunition I totally agree with his insistence on individually counting the rounds. He after all would be signing for taking custody of your weapon, 2 magazines and 40 rounds of live ammunition. How was he to know that is what he was receiving if he didn't check it physically?
At Aldergrove did you receive the magazines pre-loaded? Did you hand them back in loaded? Or did you, like us mere mortals, stand in the shelter to the left of the load/unload point and remove the rounds and put them in the little trays, point up so the armourer could check that all the rounds were indeed live and not blanks?
Incidentally having served 2 years in Aldergrove and been qualified on the SLR and SLP and in later years the SA80, if I had seen anyone do what you did and I outranked them, I would have done my damnedest to get them charged.
Last edited by Avionker; 7th Aug 2011 at 12:14.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
stand in the shelter to the left of the load/unload point
like us mere mortals
We used to use a marked lollipop stick to check the mags to save emptying them every day.
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Walther PPK and the Phantom F4J
Guys, you seem to have forgotten that the Walther PPK only appeared in the RAF inventory when it was issued to the F4j aircrew - based at RAF Wattisham in 1984 .....
It was just one component of the aircrew "survival equipment" package, which also included a rather sexy leather jacket.
The Phantom F4j's had been selected from the desert graveyard in the US and then "reworked" at the USNARF base at San Diego and bought by the RAF to compensate for the F4's which we had had to deploy to the FI's after winning the war with Argentina.
It was only one of the unique features of the F4j which included the aircrew clothing, engines, whose 3rd line maintenance facility was in Athens (not St Athan but Athens in Greece) and HOTAS. I believe they had it first on the F4, but Beags may wish to comment.
The rework at San Diego proved to be a nightmare for the engineers at Wattisham - it was full of engineering fudges.
It was just one component of the aircrew "survival equipment" package, which also included a rather sexy leather jacket.
The Phantom F4j's had been selected from the desert graveyard in the US and then "reworked" at the USNARF base at San Diego and bought by the RAF to compensate for the F4's which we had had to deploy to the FI's after winning the war with Argentina.
It was only one of the unique features of the F4j which included the aircrew clothing, engines, whose 3rd line maintenance facility was in Athens (not St Athan but Athens in Greece) and HOTAS. I believe they had it first on the F4, but Beags may wish to comment.
The rework at San Diego proved to be a nightmare for the engineers at Wattisham - it was full of engineering fudges.
Sorry, all I knew of the F4J(UK) was OP. TIGER TRAIL 3/84 - one of the first trails we did with the VC10K2 in Oct/Nov 1984. Out to San Diego via. Dayton, then back via Goose. We had to refuel at non-USAF bases back then, due to some pod lubricity issue.
Various things went wrong, but we were away for 10 days in total - all in nice hotels (apart from the last night in Goose). Great fun and lots of kerr-ching! Trips to Universal Studios and SeaWorld and Dinseyland helped to pass the time.
The 74(F) Sqn F4J(UK) crews were pretty slick. In those days UK AARA slots were usually 30 min, but one day 2 immaculate Bravo-fit F4J(UK)s turned up spot on time, plugged first go, took their gas, disconnected and left all in less than 10 min. We spent the next 20 min drinking tea deciding what to do next!
Various things went wrong, but we were away for 10 days in total - all in nice hotels (apart from the last night in Goose). Great fun and lots of kerr-ching! Trips to Universal Studios and SeaWorld and Dinseyland helped to pass the time.
The 74(F) Sqn F4J(UK) crews were pretty slick. In those days UK AARA slots were usually 30 min, but one day 2 immaculate Bravo-fit F4J(UK)s turned up spot on time, plugged first go, took their gas, disconnected and left all in less than 10 min. We spent the next 20 min drinking tea deciding what to do next!
Fareastdriver
I wasn't a mortal. I was a pilot.
You left a bit out there Fareast it should be suffixed ‘and arrogant tosser’ I believe that the said SNCO would have been justified in removing the weapon from you and then reintroducing it, to your alimentary canal!
After your time at Aldergrove a Wessex driver pitched up to the 1 metre range to unload his SLP. He didn’t remove the magazine before cocking it and deftly put a round into the sand, he was so impressed that he followed it with another. The RAF Policeman stood behind him, waiting his turn, yelled at him to put the weapon down, the policeman proceeded to make the weapon safe and, for good measure, dismantled it. He then cautioned the officer and informed him that he would be reported. As in fact you should have been!