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Aircrew side arms

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Aircrew side arms

Old 5th Aug 2011, 13:51
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Aircrew side arms

I'm trying to work out what walther pistol was issued to RAF Fast Jet pilots and have been told Walther PP & PPK by different sources?

Anyone able to enlighten?
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 14:08
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I think it wash a PPK, Mish Moneypenny.

Girly gun; should have issued an 1848 .44 Colt Dragoon. Jolly good for scaring people, including the firer........

Anyway, most people who are not in current practice with a pistol could not hit a cow's ar$e with a banjo.

HB
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 14:33
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Oddly enough, the FJ Navs were allowed to carry a pistol too...

I think the last model carried was the PP (Polizei Pistole - although the difference between that and the PPK were not great).

The predecessor - Browning 9mm - was much better, if no more accurate in average aircrew hands; at least it was hefty enough to smack someone around the head and leave a dent. The range was also far superior- you could fire a pencil about 10-15 feet, provided that you had reassembled it with all the bits that flew out during "familiarisation" on exercises (I think the pencils with earasers on the end were a little more stable that those without).

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Old 5th Aug 2011, 14:52
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Ah yes, the Browning 9mm. Super tool. Manageable recoil for a quick double-tap, pointable, shootable, big mag capacity (even bigger with extended mag).

I have seen one with a wooden holster/stock & adjustable sights; just the thing for the cats that like to leave a deposit on my lawn, methinks.

In my shooting days, I once had a pop with a Colt .45 semi-auto pistol, courtesy of the US Marines. This is for buffalo hunting or some similar pastime; too much gun.

HB
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:01
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...too much gun.
Not sure that's possible!
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:02
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Yes the Browning 9mm was great unless you happened to be a AAC Scout pilot.

The holster used to snag on the seat height lever and you ended up looking at the bottom of the instrument panel !!

Bit scary if you happened in the last seconds of landing
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:08
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PP, not PPK.....

Sigs now for most. Execpt for Herc aircrew, who still have the Browning. Talk about gun envy, especially from certain people. they fail to realise that the browing is actually the better pistol, sigs are plasticcy, high maintenance and not suited to abuse.

For those that are interested all service pistols are to be replaced shortly as the LWIPT is currently deciding on the winner of its service pistol replacement competition...
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:09
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I thought crews were now using Sig Sauers, due to the maintenance cost of the Browning?
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:13
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HB

Variable sights? I didn't know the Browning had sights. Not that they would be much use anyway; I used shut my eyes at the point of trigger squeeze and hope that big fat 9mm thingy would end up somewhere in the butts.

Pencil shooting was far safer.

Mr B
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:13
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Nothing to do with maintenance cost. It was to due to the perception that the browning was too big for a FJ cockpit!
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:16
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A bit like some of the crews that used to cary it...

Mr B
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:20
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Ds,

The SS is more or less the same size as the Browning, if not slightly bulkier!
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:24
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Yep. But it's a new and shiney toy for an element of the RAF that has/had money to spend. Note I said perception that it was too big!
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:29
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Can I ask just how useful the sidearm was for the the two Johnnies after they ejected in GW I and found themselves amid the Iraqi defenders?

"Remember, John..."

"Yes, John..."

"Save the last round for yourself..."

Better still, offer it up as a souvenir. Or throw it at them - more chance of hitting something and inflicting damage.

Mr B

Last edited by HTB; 5th Aug 2011 at 15:36. Reason: Sloppy keyboard work
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:30
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Ds,

Perception noted; however, it is the Small Arms IPT ( or whatever it is now called), which procure the weapon for the 'Defence Requirement'. It is cost prohibitive to have an aircrew specific weapon; therefore we get what we're given! Hence the phasing out of the Browning and the introduction of the SS.
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 15:46
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Got a Browning into a Jag cockpit no problems; mind you I was less bulky myself then!
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 16:32
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it is the Small Arms IPT ( or whatever it is now called), which procure the weapon for the 'Defence Requirement'
Who writes the requirement? Who skewed it towards a Sig?

Anyways a moot point as Sigs aren't replaceing all aircrew weapons. The winner of the current procurement for a future pistol will. About 8 different pizzles in the running....
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 16:36
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I would yet again most ardently recommend the 1848 .44 Colt Dragoon, if for no other reason than its' entertainment factor..........

HB
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 16:50
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The Walther came in after a coupe of Falklands war ejectees left them behind after the weight of the Browning broke the weedy strap of the holster. Someone though it better to buy new guns than buy stronger holsters. The first unit to get the James Bond toy was 1 Sqn. They all turned up to the range to do thier training wearing DJs
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Old 5th Aug 2011, 16:53
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It will no doubt come as a surprise to today's sandaholic aircrew that we 'cold warriors' weren't actually issued with gats which required you to shove the ammuntion in from the far end:


Browing 9 mill was fine - and excellent fun if you sneaked a few extra springs and oily bits of black metal into some unsuspecting mate's pile of gun parts during annual playtime with the long-suffering Stn Rocks.

Personally, I'd go with Mr Vinnie Jones (aka Bullet Tooth Tony):


"...and the fact that I've got "Desert Eagle point-five-oh" written on the side of my gun should precipitate your balls into shrinking, along with your presence. Now f**k off!"
Just don't fire it like this:

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