Redundancy Tranche 2 delayed.

[Wrathmonk]

ME JO WSOs in their 40s

Genuine question as I've never been ME - but as the individuals you describe must all be PA what sort of numbers are you talking about?

[ORAC]

Grauniad: Ministry of Defence handling of job cuts grotesque, say MPs

Committee says it is shocking that military personnel are being subjected to compulsory redundancy while civil servants are not

MPs have damned as "grotesque" the way members of the armed forces are being subjected to compulsory redundancy while no civil servants at the Ministry of Defence have been asked to leave against their will. The Commons cross-party defence committee dismisses explanations given by ministers and senior officials, describing the different treatment meted out to military personnel and civil servants as "shocking".

In their report, which is withering even by the standards of their frequent attacks in the past on MoD practices, the MPs say theft and fraud in the ministry continues to rise, the ministry does not appear to want to "understand the costs of its current operations", and it is "hiding behind official security classifications" to suppress information. They also deplore the Treasury's failure to explain what it is doing to persuade the MoD to comply with official financial reporting standards. And – ironically, given the £35bn-plus black hole in the defence budget – the ministry underspent last year to the tune of more than £6bn, the report discloses.

The MPs say the MoD "should consider whether the terms of redundancy offered to either the military or civilian staff are fair or appropriate in the light of the stark and shocking difference between the application of compulsion in redundancy to the two branches of service in the MoD". They add: "For military redundancies to be compulsory in 40% of cases, yet for civilian redundancies to be compulsory in none, is so grotesque that it requires an exceptionally persuasive reason."......................

[teeteringhead]

And another difference is:

CS have Unions

Uniforms don't

.... could there be any connection??????

[alfred_the_great]

Or it could be the Defence Select Committee have their head so far up their own arses, they can't see that they're talking ****. Having read the report, they singularly fail to understand how we are doing redundancies.

[Courtney Mil]

One thing to bear in mind. When I was made redundant in 2007, those of us that had volunteered, once accepted, became compulsory. In other words, everyone leaving the RAF was a compulsory redundancy whether they had volunteered or not.

Courtney

[Melchett01]

Caused a bit of harrumphing amongst some of the CS at my end of the trench. To a man they all believe that the CS are more flexible than the military in terms of employability. I was sorely tempted to point out that we are so inflexible that one of our number has just picked up a short notice weekend duty officer without grumbling, but which the equivalent CS would expect significant overtime payments to do.

Of course it could just be a case that James Arbuthnott and Ursuala Brennan don't see eye to eye on this. Alternatively, Arbuthnott could have just delivered the very pointed question of whether or not whether the MOD exits to support the defence of the UK or to provide CS with a career. Lately, I think it is the later of the 2, in which case, that they are also unionised as pointed out by Teeteringhead will undoubtedly come in to play here.

[ORAC]

whether or not whether the MOD exits to support the defence of the UK

Freudian slip there; the exit of the MOD might well be seen by many as supporting the future defence of the country......

[Grimweasel]

Mistake in Redundancy DIN

I take it most people are aware of the possible error in the Redundancy DIN? It states the Special Capital Payment (ie Redundancy payment) is TAX FREE. This is incorrect as only the first £30K of any redundancy payment (inc cash value of any other 'gifts') is tax free. Above that threshold, amounts are taxed at 40% I believe and it's then up to you to claim back any money due. This could have implications for some higher ranked redundees. I'm sure Al could clarify?

See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/guidance/redu...-factsheet.pdf

[Grimweasel]

Just this once - thanks for the update - I hope this is true as my tax advisor said it was unlikely we sat outside of it. Should have an answer back this week hopefully!

[Grimweasel]

Thanks. Found the info here:
http://mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0E5372B7-...okletjan07.pdf

Mentions tax free payment. I just hope the tax rules have not changed since this was published in 2007. You know how weasely this current lot are.

[Harley Quinn]

You know how weasely this current lot are.

No more so than the last lot

[Grimweasel]

Spoke with a chap who was made redundant from HRMC this morning. He said it would be very unlikely indeed that the MoD sat outside of normal tax rules for everyone else based on the very generous offer (above stat' norms) that we were getting anyway.

He also said watch the next budget because there will be a raid on tax saving schemes - expect the 40% tax relief on personal pension contributions to be axed too. This Government just wants us all to die poor. All it will do is leave more people claiming off the state in the future. They should look at the Laffer Curve and understand the optimum revenue producing level of taxation. Set it too high and revenues fall as people spend resources evading tax - too low and there is not enough revenue.

Interestingly, he did say if you are Non-Dom status and you don't want to pay tax on investments held abroad etc you just pay the HRMC £30K a year. Now if you are a multi-millionaire this sounds like a very cheap deal to me. Small price to pay for not having your billions raided abroad!!

[Al R]

Mmm. Not sure about that, and the jury is still out. I can certainly see George considering limiting pension tax free cash or lowering contributions, and possibly tweaking tax relief. But as ever, get the basics right. Consider whether your partner should have one (even/especially if they don't pay tax) and time is running out for military big earners to protect their lifetime allowance (especially if they are going on to high earning second careers).

[ghostnav]

Good to see rumours are still available that have no basis of fact! The quality though really has gone down over the past few months. Anyone wonder what the government will do with the RAF once it finishes operations? More redundancies perhaps?

[Melchett01]

Anyone wonder what the government will do with the RAF once it finishes operations? More redundancies perhaps?

Actually we will never finish operations. What I am about to say is not intended to come across as inter-service bitching, but unlike the Army who post Afghanistan will essentially be confined to barracks, Salisbury Plain and marching up and down Whitehall, the need to defend both the UK airspace and the sea lines of communication mean that both the RAF and the RN will still have a job to do.

expect the 40% tax relief on personal pension contributions to be axed too.

I can't add any more to the rumours alread going round, but I am in 2 minds as to whether or not chopping tax relief on pensions is a good thing ... hear me out.

Pension regulations are horrendously complex and working out whether the tax you save now outstrips the tax you will pay on a pensionable income is fairly tricky given the multitude of factors you have to consider. Therefore, reducing the relief you can claim would certainly make it simpler - especially for the Forces now that there is a 50k / year limit contribution, but according to the DIN, no simple way outside of having a PhD in Pure Maths to calculate exactly how much of that 50k limit we use up. I can't see many people being happy having been encouraged to contribute to a private pension on top of their military pension and then finding themselves with a tax bill.

However, politically it would be suicide. Whilst no doubt trying to extract more from the high paid, scrapping relief would - thanks to fiscal drag - hit a lot of very ordinary families. I can see that going down well come the next election. Plus, it would probably also drive more people to ISAs than pensions: reduced relief up front, taxed when you draw an income - why not go for an ISA where there is no tax at all (barring the nominal rate payable on dividends)? At a stroke, tinkering with the tax relief rates has the potential to actually reduce the govt's tax take rather than increasing it by 20%.

As ever, Melchy's totally unqualified ruminations at the end of a long day. If you want advice, speak to Al R. (Al - I'll PM you with an address for the referal fee )

[Al R]

The problem now is that politicians are responding to the volatility in the market and mulling over small aspects (such as fettling with tax relief). They are reflecting on the market and pointing to that as excuse. The issue these days with market valuations (whether it's the FTSE, Dow Jones or any of the European indices) is that the numbers at the end of the day are no longer determined solely by traditional basics, such as asset class or company performance.. but as much as anything by the actions of policy makers - the politicians who are spending all this time and effort claiming to be reacting to it.

This market making, this (generally?) unhealthy dependence and over reliance on politicians and central bankers rather than old fashioned market fundamentals has made all of our outcomes far more uncertain and (as a former stockbroker) I know that the one thing that is guaranteed to upset the markets more than anything else is uncertainty. Uncertainty means volatility and the volatility that we are currently witnessing is now irrespective of how many European summits are held or how much of our money is pumped into our economies.

At a very minimum, three tax wrappers that everyone should consider these days; the ISA, the pension and the (on/offshore) Bond.

[Melchett01]

the numbers at the end of the day are no longer determined solely by traditional basics, such as asset class or company performance.. but as much as anything by the actions of policy makers - the politicians who are spending all this time and effort claiming to be reacting to it.

At the risk of a little further thread drift - apologies - I have to concur with you there Al - arguably it is the politicians rather than the markets that are causing the current turmoil. One of the drawbacks of an enlarged EU is the difficulty in reaching a consensus and implementing an effective decision i.e. you can't unless you are on the verge of a crisis which forces you to act. And as you point out that leads to uncertainty and given that fear and greed rather than market fundamentals are the dominant factors in banking and finance, that leads to where we are now.

The bond markets in effectively forcing a change of govt in Italy and Greece were at first accused of being undemocratic in unseating an elected PM. The flip side to that coin is that it is only the financial markets that now have the ability to hold incompetent polticians to account for their failure to govern effectively.

[LFFC]

More sad news, and maybe a tad cynical coming just one week after the Queen's Jubilee.

Army's manning chief infuriates troops with Service transfer quip

The head of Army manning has infuriated troops by suggesting that sacked soldiers should apply for specialist jobs in the RAF or Navy.

Brig Rob Nitsch also admitted that some soldiers would be axed “against their wishes” as redundancy notices are handed to 4,100 soldiers, sailors and airmen tomorrow (tues).
It will be the largest single sacking of troops in the last two decades with at least a third being forcibly axed.

With the Army reducing its size by a fifth to just 82,000 troops it will shed 2,900 soldiers in the second tranche of redundancies in a year

A third of the 900 RAF redundancies will come from its senior officers with 30 group captains, 40 wing commanders and 115 squadron leaders chopped. It is also understood that up to half-a-dozen of the 26 Air Vice Marshals will be go. However no trained pilots will be lost.

[Willard Whyte]

I just hope some of the w*nkers involved in my redundancy get the chop this time around.

I spit on their shiny shoes.

[Kitbag]

The 'reapply for other specialisations' thing has been there since the beginning as most on here will be aware assuming they were either in the bracket themselves, or were responsible for guys in the bracket. Having a go at this Brigadier is simply wrong and distorts the issue.

Surprised so few RN senior officers are going though.