Plymouth Airport closure and Devonport Dockyard future
Gibraltar? Even better with the benefit of good weather as well. = bye bye Devonport
I was just wondering how long you had been a member of the Flyfishers and then I realised from your location that you must be an Intergalactic Member.
Jack
I was just wondering how long you had been a member of the Flyfishers and then I realised from your location that you must be an Intergalactic Member.
Jack
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There is no doubt that Plymouth will close this year as a licensed civil airport with SHH handing in their licence back to the Belgrano for revocation. That is a legal/paperwork exercise which leaves the facilities intact (unless the CAA employ a demolition expert)
Operations that require the use of a licensed aerodrome do not include military flying. PPL flying training can now be conducted at unlicensed aerodromes too.
Maybe there's a compromise where the north west corner of the aerodrome could be retained and the rest sacrificed on the alter of development?
SGC
Operations that require the use of a licensed aerodrome do not include military flying. PPL flying training can now be conducted at unlicensed aerodromes too.
Maybe there's a compromise where the north west corner of the aerodrome could be retained and the rest sacrificed on the alter of development?
SGC
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Plymouth City Council have no interest in trying to keep open their airport , they're more interested in chucking away just under £2m in buying back a football field , however I suppose that could be a good place to fly helos from when they've got away matches .
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Pah, PCC could not run a piss up in brewery with Beer, Food, dancing Girls and sundry staff already in place.
I know as I am forced to contribute to their coffers - One thing, I actually agree with the purchasing of the Oikball grass.
They sold for about 6 mil, bought back for 2.
Thats good money making that is.
Shame about the "JannerDrome" but it is a flea pit of an unuseable airport with no real length, insufficient cover, surrounded by NIMBY's and under invested in.
As to the Fost question. - what about them using the Pad in the Citadel?
Biggest weakness of the dockyard - it was staffed by lazy feckless Janners.
My firm has tried, tried and tried again and again to employ them and as a rule they are idle and want lots of money for no effort...
I know as I am forced to contribute to their coffers - One thing, I actually agree with the purchasing of the Oikball grass.
They sold for about 6 mil, bought back for 2.
Thats good money making that is.
Shame about the "JannerDrome" but it is a flea pit of an unuseable airport with no real length, insufficient cover, surrounded by NIMBY's and under invested in.
As to the Fost question. - what about them using the Pad in the Citadel?
Biggest weakness of the dockyard - it was staffed by lazy feckless Janners.
My firm has tried, tried and tried again and again to employ them and as a rule they are idle and want lots of money for no effort...
As to the Fost question. - what about them using the Pad in the Citadel?
I agree that with the current & forecast size of the fleet 3 Naval bases is too many. Trouble is that the infrastructure has grown with a haphazard regard for efficient planning.
Faslane has the deterrent & Coulport so needs to stay open.
Devonport has the N Sub refit complex so probably needs to stay open
Portsmouth has many of the shore training establishments and the Naval HQ
And, as an aside, Rosyth needs to be kept open as its the only dockyard that can refit the (new) carriers.
Should probably have closed Portsmouth, moved the training establishments to Guzz & done what they did to Vernon site - developed it as the RN museum & a plush waterfront housing site. Allowing VT (now BAe shipbuilders or whatever) to relocate their ship building facilities there muddied those waters. Trouble is, that this would all cost money in the short term & that we don't have.
Faslane has the deterrent & Coulport so needs to stay open.
Devonport has the N Sub refit complex so probably needs to stay open
Portsmouth has many of the shore training establishments and the Naval HQ
And, as an aside, Rosyth needs to be kept open as its the only dockyard that can refit the (new) carriers.
Should probably have closed Portsmouth, moved the training establishments to Guzz & done what they did to Vernon site - developed it as the RN museum & a plush waterfront housing site. Allowing VT (now BAe shipbuilders or whatever) to relocate their ship building facilities there muddied those waters. Trouble is, that this would all cost money in the short term & that we don't have.
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I cannot see the need for having three Naval Dockyards when we have so few ships, I am guessing that the only reasons we are keeping them is political?
Regarding a helipad at Devonport then what about that HUGE parade ground with HMS Drake is it still a Royal Naval Establishment?
I understand the width of our new carriers might be an issue but I remember the days when Devonport would have both Eagle and Ark Royal alongside or in dry-dock, plus a few commando carriers, cruisers etc. It is a huge dockyard with as has been already stated, very large dry dock facilities. How does it compare to Roysth and if those skirt wearers want independence then let's think about closing down that dockyard.
Regarding a helipad at Devonport then what about that HUGE parade ground with HMS Drake is it still a Royal Naval Establishment?
I understand the width of our new carriers might be an issue but I remember the days when Devonport would have both Eagle and Ark Royal alongside or in dry-dock, plus a few commando carriers, cruisers etc. It is a huge dockyard with as has been already stated, very large dry dock facilities. How does it compare to Roysth and if those skirt wearers want independence then let's think about closing down that dockyard.
Rosyth is a privately owned dock yard, its not a Naval Base so its not up to the MoD to close it, its Babcock's responsibility. However, believe me it is the only dockyard capable of doing military refits that can take the QE class. it has all been looked at. Ark Royal was smaller than the QE, not by much but by enough to a difference.
Note, Devonport & Portspouth Dockyard are MoD owned sites with seperate Naval Bases within them. Faslane is a Naval Base & not a dockyard.
As I said, above, we should close one of the dockyard/ naval bases but which one? I vote for Portsmouth & move the RN surface fleet to Guzz but it would need a short term investment & we don't have the cash. I genuinely don't believe that the closure of Plymouth airport will have any bearing on the future of Devonport.
Note, Devonport & Portspouth Dockyard are MoD owned sites with seperate Naval Bases within them. Faslane is a Naval Base & not a dockyard.
As I said, above, we should close one of the dockyard/ naval bases but which one? I vote for Portsmouth & move the RN surface fleet to Guzz but it would need a short term investment & we don't have the cash. I genuinely don't believe that the closure of Plymouth airport will have any bearing on the future of Devonport.
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My understanding is that BI will base the helo's at Newquay when plymouth closes and then re-position them to Raleigh daily. The dockyard was ruled out as unworkable due to the marines moving in. The problem with raleigh is that it will be Day VFR only and there are restrictions on movements in the planning permission.
When FOST does relocate (i do mean WHEN not if) it will be to Scotland.
Devonport will become the nuclear sub decommission base. There are a lot of Plymouth city council officers saying "what have we gone and done". right now
my sources inform me.
There were warned.
When FOST does relocate (i do mean WHEN not if) it will be to Scotland.
Devonport will become the nuclear sub decommission base. There are a lot of Plymouth city council officers saying "what have we gone and done". right now
my sources inform me.
There were warned.
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andyy and others. I agree entirely that GUZZ , tactically, is the best Base we have. Far more useful than Pompey for searoom and open sea access. If only fat Herman had bombed Cremyll Point while he was in the neighbourhood.
Another complication for GUZZ, though, is that their support storage and handling capacity and facilities have been run down to near sod all. On the other hand, the storage and handling in Pompey is now DSDA's and it's probably the most modern and efficient they have. It certainly beats Donnington for the "fast movers". Additionally the bang/whoosh facilities in Ernesettle have also shrunk to bugger all while those in Turktown have been pretty much retained. Thereagain, Thanckes OFJ is usable whereas Gosport OFJ is barely so.
As regards Roborough being essential to the survival HMNB Devonport, I really can't follow the argument; even from a loggie's angle.
Another complication for GUZZ, though, is that their support storage and handling capacity and facilities have been run down to near sod all. On the other hand, the storage and handling in Pompey is now DSDA's and it's probably the most modern and efficient they have. It certainly beats Donnington for the "fast movers". Additionally the bang/whoosh facilities in Ernesettle have also shrunk to bugger all while those in Turktown have been pretty much retained. Thereagain, Thanckes OFJ is usable whereas Gosport OFJ is barely so.
As regards Roborough being essential to the survival HMNB Devonport, I really can't follow the argument; even from a loggie's angle.
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Weston Mill is out of the question a nice rubbish incinerator is being built there with high chimneys as is the Dockyard. To my knowledge the airport will close on the 23rd December and like everybody else FOST have been given notice to quit the airport on that day. Obviously it goes without saying that with this this notice FOST are looking at alternative sites. It seems ludicrous to me that Fost personnel would have to be driven to either Newquay or Exeter from Plymouth to meet up with the Helos a minimum of 3/4hr away.
As you quite rightly say, they were warned before the Royal Marines moved in. The beauty of Roborough and Weston Mill was that when it was clamped at the airport, Weston Mill could be used and vice versa. There are many days of the year that flight will not be able to take place from Raleigh and the cost to FOST will be huge in bussing staff to Newquay or more boat transfers which will require the ship's to come into the sound.
Scotland or Gib is the only place to go now, with access to training areas. Machrahanish...now that would be a good place..
They should never have left Portland!
Scotland or Gib is the only place to go now, with access to training areas. Machrahanish...now that would be a good place..
They should never have left Portland!
For the benefit of those, like me, who ploughed through the whole of this thread in the vain hope that someone would explain wtf FOST meant, I can now reveal that it means Flag Officer Sea Training.
I googled it!
I googled it!
Pity Roborough is closing - I enjoyed my first solo in a Chipmunk there in November 1978.