PVRs started.....
ralphmalph,
Reference
"I suppose the real litmus test will come next year when the "pay freeze" is lifted....lets see what happens then?"
It's a two year pay free, so the next pay increase will be in April 2013!
Rick777
Unfortunately in the RAF when they realise they have not got enough people they just throw money at selected individuals to stay in. Changes in terms and conditions take too long to impliment, probably have to be put in place across multiple trades, and cost money, and the organization is now too lean to provide rest tours for individuals..... No postings to Hawaii for us
Reference
"I suppose the real litmus test will come next year when the "pay freeze" is lifted....lets see what happens then?"
It's a two year pay free, so the next pay increase will be in April 2013!
Rick777
Unfortunately in the RAF when they realise they have not got enough people they just throw money at selected individuals to stay in. Changes in terms and conditions take too long to impliment, probably have to be put in place across multiple trades, and cost money, and the organization is now too lean to provide rest tours for individuals..... No postings to Hawaii for us
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Its not the numbers that are the problem perse. Its the experience levels that will be the problem. The last generation of pilots that have done stuff outside of Herrick and Telic are queueing for the exits.
Its going to be interesting to see how the levels of experience dilution we are seeing are going to be dealt with. Oh, and its not just an issue for the pilot fraternity. The engineering world is pretty threadders with their lot with some of the obscene sums of money on offer globally for less responsibility.
Its going to be interesting to see how the levels of experience dilution we are seeing are going to be dealt with. Oh, and its not just an issue for the pilot fraternity. The engineering world is pretty threadders with their lot with some of the obscene sums of money on offer globally for less responsibility.
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Look on the bright side, it might ease some of the married quater issues mentioned elsewhere for Brize 
Cunning Artificer
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The good news for the guys that stay is that life can get much better in a hurry when the powers that be finally realize that they don't have enough people to run the show.
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Anyone got any more actual figures of how many are walking? or is it just a lot of people talking about it.
Hopefully there will be a 12 year option FRI soon, to give another 5 years service like there has been in the past.....
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Thing is, if you do the sums, its not financially worth it (other than to seriously dent the mortgage).
Every sum I do comes to the same conclusion; if you are deciding based solely on money, walking after your 6 year ROS is the only way. Every year delayed is a years captaincy pay with the airlines toward the end of your career that you are cheating yourself of.
Which means they are going to have to do something a lot more difficult than throwing cash at the problem. They are going to have to make individuals actually want to stay.
Every sum I do comes to the same conclusion; if you are deciding based solely on money, walking after your 6 year ROS is the only way. Every year delayed is a years captaincy pay with the airlines toward the end of your career that you are cheating yourself of.
Which means they are going to have to do something a lot more difficult than throwing cash at the problem. They are going to have to make individuals actually want to stay.
Last edited by VinRouge; 22nd Jun 2011 at 14:33.
VinRouge:
Know what you mean VR, but would prefer to substitute the word "Seniority" for "Captaincy Pay". A subtly different but all important concept. Seniority rules all in the Airlines. From your point of view it amounts to even greater urgency. Every day delayed is a day's seniority less. A single day lost could cost you years of "Captaincy Pay"!
Every year delayed is a years captaincy pay with the airlines you are cheating yourself of.
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17 Pilot and Crewman PVRs at Odiham........the flood gates are opening! On the flip side, Frenchie has written a nice little book about what the Chinny Force get up to in AFG, tres readable.
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Given that the post-SDSR briefs all had the number of pilots at circa 100% manning come 2015 it looks as though the RAF will need to start a recruitment drive pretty damn soon.
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Playing the Devil's Advocate card:
If those who are left don't have as much experience as those who have just left, then they soon will.
I thought there used to be complaints about lack of flying hours, due to fuel/ secondary costs etc. Now there are complaints about too many.
Tangent wave anyone?
If those who are left don't have as much experience as those who have just left, then they soon will.
I thought there used to be complaints about lack of flying hours, due to fuel/ secondary costs etc. Now there are complaints about too many.
Tangent wave anyone?
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Airline pilot shortage facing UK, union Balpa warns - 4 Nov 10
This is about 6 months old, but I'm told that the only real change is to this extract:
I understand that, for the next few years, that figure should be far higher!
This is about 6 months old, but I'm told that the only real change is to this extract:
Pilot Martin Alder, a Balpa member, told the BBC there was a need for about 400 new pilots a year in the UK
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Know what you mean VR, but would prefer to substitute the word "Seniority" for "Captaincy Pay". A subtly different but all important concept. Seniority rules all in the Airlines. From your point of view it amounts to even greater urgency. Every day delayed is a day's seniority less. A single day lost could cost you years of "Captaincy Pay"!
Minor thread creep as your point is well made for most airline outfits.
My understanding of all this is, that there is indeed a respectable amount of money spent on defence by comparison. What I find difficult to grasp is, where does it all go now? When I left in 1990, we still got 4 travel warrants a year, we had nearly four times the number of combat aircraft and it was also the era of accommodation renovation throughout the R.A.F Add to this the comparative size of the other two services and the cost of running all this, it is of some curiosity to me that we can spend as much as we do and have so little in the way of people and assets. Especially when so much is no longer provided for out of the defence budget. I understand thegreater amount of spending on defence in 1990, but it wasn't that much greater. From 1990-1994 average UK defence expenditure was 3.8% of GDP. IN 2008-2009 it was 2.5%.
To put matters further in pespective, the figures from the Commons Library say that defence expenditure for 2008/9 was £36,400,000,000. At 2008/9 prices, the hard cash amount spent in 1989/90 was no more than £36,000,000,000. The actual amount spent at 1989/90 was; £20,800,000,000.
I'm truly puzzled, unless of course, the 2008/9 figure includes the capital spending on Iraq, Afghanistan etc!?
FB
To put matters further in pespective, the figures from the Commons Library say that defence expenditure for 2008/9 was £36,400,000,000. At 2008/9 prices, the hard cash amount spent in 1989/90 was no more than £36,000,000,000. The actual amount spent at 1989/90 was; £20,800,000,000.
I'm truly puzzled, unless of course, the 2008/9 figure includes the capital spending on Iraq, Afghanistan etc!?
FB
Not thread creep at all, jpboy, but vital info for those poised to fly the nest. Personally I PVR'd so long ago that scarcely anything that pertained then does so now, I fear. I do remember the big culture shock of "civvy street" and the brutal logic of the seniority system. Kudos to Jet2 for being different, though I risk the damnation of the brotherhood for saying so!
As to forecast pilot shortages, LFFC, exactly the same was stated when I left. Then the 6 day Arab/Israeli war happened! Luckily I had just clambered aboard Dan-Air, who promptly pulled up the the drawbridge behind me. Which brings us to the most important qualification of all, luck! You can plan and you can plot as much as you like, but if you ain't lucky it won't happen. So, feeling lucky? Well are you?
As to forecast pilot shortages, LFFC, exactly the same was stated when I left. Then the 6 day Arab/Israeli war happened! Luckily I had just clambered aboard Dan-Air, who promptly pulled up the the drawbridge behind me. Which brings us to the most important qualification of all, luck! You can plan and you can plot as much as you like, but if you ain't lucky it won't happen. So, feeling lucky? Well are you?
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TOFO's scary talk is just scary talk.
Many people who leave the services (whatever trade or rank) have a really good set of transferable skills topped by a good work ethic and the stable platform of an ability to turn up to work even when their toes have an annoying itch.
Okay, I left with some CAA A&C Licences, but I never really needed them, moving into management and consultancy quite soon after leaving. I left as a Sgt Rigga. I have no management qualifications and no specialist qualifications yet here I am running my own dept and plans affecting up to 200 engineers and a lot of aircraft.
Remember that its not what you did in the Services that counts towards a lot of jobs - its what you bring to the job that counts.
Many people who leave the services (whatever trade or rank) have a really good set of transferable skills topped by a good work ethic and the stable platform of an ability to turn up to work even when their toes have an annoying itch.
Okay, I left with some CAA A&C Licences, but I never really needed them, moving into management and consultancy quite soon after leaving. I left as a Sgt Rigga. I have no management qualifications and no specialist qualifications yet here I am running my own dept and plans affecting up to 200 engineers and a lot of aircraft.
Remember that its not what you did in the Services that counts towards a lot of jobs - its what you bring to the job that counts.
Anyway I now know we undersell ourselves...comparable wages and in fact higher are out there if you market yourselves correctly and have an exit plan...
Good luck to all.
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I don't see what the problem is.
People leave and are replaced by the next generation...we've got plenty of pilots coming through the system. Wait a second...oh no, that's right - a large chunk of them got laid off...is it too late to reverse that decision?
People leave and are replaced by the next generation...we've got plenty of pilots coming through the system. Wait a second...oh no, that's right - a large chunk of them got laid off...is it too late to reverse that decision?