Shooting on Royal Navy Sub
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Wasn't there an incident many moons ago involving a member of the "security" peeps in Germany involving a jammed SMG ?..........
Sorry to be vague but those that know will know what I mean.
Possibly something about the fact we no longer have lynch parties in this country and all the facts are gathered and then put to a court. there may or may not be mitigating circumstances as to whether a charge of murder or Manslaughter etc......... one does not know, could be anything really from bullying to temporary insanity to straight cold bloodied murder......... but these facts all have to be gathered, things have to be looked at and then the CPS has to decide what charges are brought...... that is why they investigate and it takes time....... I for one wouldn't want it any other way, would you?
Sorry to be vague but those that know will know what I mean.
Can somebody explain why the police need so long to "investigate"?
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I'm new here after a long time lurking, so perhaps this isnt the best place to post first, but a thought sprang to mind that doesn't seem to have been brought up...
With ALL due respect to the deceased an injured, the man who will apparently be charged had a DUTY to shoot people under certain circumstances. In the UK it is rare to find someone carrying a loaded assault rifle in a non-training environment without good cause. Now, the overwhelming evidence is that this young chap for whatever reason killed and injured innocent shipmates for some reason which may forever remain locked in his own head. But justice demands that we not jump to conclusions. With no other evidence to go on how do a bunch of know-it-alls on a message board NOT know that the young man was not carrying out his duty to protect the ship? SORRY...BOAT.
Obviously this doesn't appear to be the case, but it would be piss-poor policing to not at least look into that possibility.
As we say here state-side.... just sayin'
cheers
With ALL due respect to the deceased an injured, the man who will apparently be charged had a DUTY to shoot people under certain circumstances. In the UK it is rare to find someone carrying a loaded assault rifle in a non-training environment without good cause. Now, the overwhelming evidence is that this young chap for whatever reason killed and injured innocent shipmates for some reason which may forever remain locked in his own head. But justice demands that we not jump to conclusions. With no other evidence to go on how do a bunch of know-it-alls on a message board NOT know that the young man was not carrying out his duty to protect the ship? SORRY...BOAT.
Obviously this doesn't appear to be the case, but it would be piss-poor policing to not at least look into that possibility.
As we say here state-side.... just sayin'
cheers
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Romeo Oscar Golf,
Because the role of the Police isn't just to generate facts to fit the case but to investigate. This means covering all possible scenarios, scrutinising motive, examining backgrounds. The forensics themselves take hours if not days to gather.
I agree, in an apparently clear cut case such as this it seems OTT but who would want to be the Senior Investigating Officer in a case that was thrown out because some i hadn't been dotted?
Why waste further time?
I agree, in an apparently clear cut case such as this it seems OTT but who would want to be the Senior Investigating Officer in a case that was thrown out because some i hadn't been dotted?
Last edited by Tashengurt; 11th Apr 2011 at 07:10. Reason: Spelling. Always spelling.
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Nice to see US contribution but hopefully no one on this thread so far has put forward ANY opinions regarding this shooting and quite rightly so, as none of us were present.
I cannot recall ANYTHING like this event ever happening in the Royal Navy and hopefully it will be a 'one off' type incident.
During my time in the armed services a new word came into being... fragging
Thankfully it remained the other side of the 'pond', but sadly it was not confined to the Vietnam era.
To all those that were under the impression that the police had taken control of this boat, I will simply say that she was due to sail at approximately 1640 this afternoon, and I have just confirmed that it is in the public domain that she will indeed be sailing at the scheduled time. (providing she is in all respects ready to put to sea).
I cannot recall ANYTHING like this event ever happening in the Royal Navy and hopefully it will be a 'one off' type incident.
During my time in the armed services a new word came into being... fragging
Thankfully it remained the other side of the 'pond', but sadly it was not confined to the Vietnam era.
To all those that were under the impression that the police had taken control of this boat, I will simply say that she was due to sail at approximately 1640 this afternoon, and I have just confirmed that it is in the public domain that she will indeed be sailing at the scheduled time. (providing she is in all respects ready to put to sea).
Last edited by glojo; 11th Apr 2011 at 07:29. Reason: Additional information
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Am I not right in thinking that the origins of the shooting came about because AB Donavon was not allowed to leave the boat and visit his parents.
Isn't there a discipline issue here. Or is that too over-simplified?
Isn't there a discipline issue here. Or is that too over-simplified?
AB Donavon [sic] was not allowed to leave the boat and visit his parents.
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I cannot recall ANYTHING like this event ever happening in the Royal Navy
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Slightly different scenarios - one a POW under armed guard believed to be trying to damage the Sub, the other 2 officers in command of a rating.
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What's all this got to do with aviation then?
Last edited by NutLoose; 11th Apr 2011 at 11:17.
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This is very much tongue in cheek and I know I said it before but here you go:
Next time you are at 40,000ft and see a UFO..... Think submarine 
As has been stated previously this person was shot dead by an armed guard (Royal Marine) who was of the opinion that this person was trying to scuttle the boat they were on.
Modern control systems enable a submarine to operate much like an airplane, but subs fly in a sea of water. Similar to a plane's wings and tail, a sub's hull-mounted hydroplanes allow the boat to ascend or descend several hundred feet per minute. Like planes, submarines must consider the topography of their surroundings. Underwater mountains and valleys, just like the continental ones, limit the maneuverability of submarines. SONAR is used actively to detect underwater obstacles and increase mobility
Originally Posted by Red Plum
1982. Grytviken, South Georgia. ARA Santa Fe (being moved under command of RN prize crew). Argentine CPO Felix Artuso shot dead at close range by armed guard.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Shack you mentioned other armed guard incidents _. Guard commander shot dead, can,t remember where but possibly Aden or Kenya. RAF Policeman asked to be relieved as he would shoot the aircraft, he wasn't relieved and he did. RAF policeman shot his aircraft with an air pistol.
It is always a risk.
It is always a risk.
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Tempting fate?
So, once it becomes known that the injured officer's nickname prior to being shot was 'Bullet' (I kid you not!) , will the defendant claim "he asked for it!"
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RAF policeman shot his aircraft with an air pistol.
Last edited by glad rag; 11th Apr 2011 at 21:29.
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I suppose that since the forces recruit from across the social spectrum there's always the danger (inevitability) a nut job or two will sneak in. I certainly met a few unhinged types in my time.
Personally, I was assigned guard duties the week after what I now call my first, comedy air force marriage ended.
Even at the time I wondered at the wisdom of letting a slightly hacked off twenty something loose with a loaded SA80 for twelve hour nightshifts. I suppose I should have taken it as a compliment!
Personally, I was assigned guard duties the week after what I now call my first, comedy air force marriage ended.
Even at the time I wondered at the wisdom of letting a slightly hacked off twenty something loose with a loaded SA80 for twelve hour nightshifts. I suppose I should have taken it as a compliment!
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I suppose that since the forces recruit from across the social spectrum....
Tashengurt,
Pray tell, which section of the social spectrum is immune from killing?
I happen to believe that one of the few places where the only thing limiting your progress is ability/potential is in the forces. My cousin comes from a modest background, but thanks to a navy education (including elocution lessons) now mixes easily with dockers or captains, and could well have been on the end of one of these bullets. When you take them in, you take them apart and you put them back together again. If this one was broken, don't blame it on his social class.
Pray tell, which section of the social spectrum is immune from killing?
I happen to believe that one of the few places where the only thing limiting your progress is ability/potential is in the forces. My cousin comes from a modest background, but thanks to a navy education (including elocution lessons) now mixes easily with dockers or captains, and could well have been on the end of one of these bullets. When you take them in, you take them apart and you put them back together again. If this one was broken, don't blame it on his social class.
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PN
It was c130bloke who mentioned that one. Closer to home, at BK in the late 60's a disillusioned young RAFP loosed one off in the guardroom to add emphasis to his application to become a civilian again. He didn't actually threaten anyone and I think he got his wish (after a short free holiday).
Shack you mentioned other armed guard incidents