Sukhoi shootdown
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I am not sure what anyone has said in the 3 posts previous to yours to warrant your comment.
Then permit me to enlighten you, dear Henry. I think it was the 'I wondered if those ancient anti-aircraft guns were any use at all... I suspect not' that irritated me.
if you can see tracer, then be happy as the ammunition is not headed in your direction. Because of the arc of burn behind the round you cannot see the bullet that is coming directly at you.
Is that how tracers work? Golly, I never knew. I thought the rounds had a little chap hanging on to the front shining a tiny torch in my direction trying to dazzle me.
My point was that you can see what you're flying into, which is the 'destabilising' bit.
That story of the bloke 'who was having his first day with the AA gun with one out of 2 barrels working ,and downed the Sukhoi as it went past', had a distinct aroma of aged Halibut.
That's odd, 'cos I know a number of people who - change name of aircraft - managed something very similar.
No! There are at least two of us think similar 'possibilities'.
More nonsense from the Boys Own Book Of Warfare...
Then permit me to enlighten you, dear Henry. I think it was the 'I wondered if those ancient anti-aircraft guns were any use at all... I suspect not' that irritated me.
if you can see tracer, then be happy as the ammunition is not headed in your direction. Because of the arc of burn behind the round you cannot see the bullet that is coming directly at you.
Is that how tracers work? Golly, I never knew. I thought the rounds had a little chap hanging on to the front shining a tiny torch in my direction trying to dazzle me.
My point was that you can see what you're flying into, which is the 'destabilising' bit.
That story of the bloke 'who was having his first day with the AA gun with one out of 2 barrels working ,and downed the Sukhoi as it went past', had a distinct aroma of aged Halibut.
That's odd, 'cos I know a number of people who - change name of aircraft - managed something very similar.
No! There are at least two of us think similar 'possibilities'.
More nonsense from the Boys Own Book Of Warfare...
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Hanoijane
Well aren't we sanctimonius!
So how does the
lead to your statement
which is the statement i said was unwarranted. I don't get it! Do you?
you say
but you demonstrated in your first post that you did not know how tracer worked
It isn't headed in your direction is it?
That wasn't your point, read your line above again.
A better read than the girl guides book of knitting i wager. Do you think you are the only one here that has been in warfare? The only one who has experienced tracer? Destabalising! you need to grow a pair.
What Biggus said.
Well aren't we sanctimonius!
So how does the
it was the 'I wondered if those ancient anti-aircraft guns were any use at all... I suspect not' that irritated me
Really, when will you guys start to appreciate that what works wonderfully well fresh out the factory on a sanitized range somewhere is next to ******* useless in the real world of half-trained operators, humidity or dust and limited or no servicing facilities?
you say
s that how tracers work? Golly, I never knew. I thought the rounds had a little chap hanging on to the front shining a tiny torch in my direction trying to dazzle me.
Tartare, you're clearly someone who has never experienced the 'destabilising' effect that tracer headed in your direction has on your focus.
My point was that you can see what you're flying into, which is the 'destabilising' bit.
More nonsense from the Boys Own Book Of Warfare...
What Biggus said.
Here's hoping there will soon be a few 'advisers' on hand to show them how to best organise their AA defences - their efforts to date appear to have have been pretty shambolic, even to a layman like me.
I bet all of those gun-nuts in America must be green with envy at some of the mounts these guys have been totin', not to mention being given the chance to blaze away with gay abandon at real targets (and an apparently almost unlimited supply of ammo).
I bet all of those gun-nuts in America must be green with envy at some of the mounts these guys have been totin', not to mention being given the chance to blaze away with gay abandon at real targets (and an apparently almost unlimited supply of ammo).
original specifications that the aircraft are designed to include something along the lines of: "Must be capable of sustaining no damage from a direct hit by 23mm ammunition..."
Jabba_TG12,
No problem. Libyan Su-22s also carry shield insignia.
Photos: Sukhoi Su-22M3 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
-----------------------------------------
Footage of Su-22 being fired on from 01:19.
Chairborne Warrior doing his anti-aircraft bit!
TJ
No problem. Libyan Su-22s also carry shield insignia.
Photos: Sukhoi Su-22M3 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
-----------------------------------------
Footage of Su-22 being fired on from 01:19.
Chairborne Warrior doing his anti-aircraft bit!
TJ
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Ah yes, the 1955-75 book was a classic. Warfare was never quite as romantic again, was it? Bare metal fighters. Big scary bombers. Good guys and bad guys. Like WWII on steroids. Why did we ever let those days drift away...?
But to tear myself away from young Henry and his semantics for a second (English is not my first language, Henry) and to keep a fretting Mod happy, let's assume you're tasked with a mission to drop something nasty onto an angry insurgents head. What's uppermost in your mind? The possibility you may fall victim to a well-briefed and trained SF guy hiding in a sand dune with his perfectly maintained Stinger or Igla, or some Random Charlie with his finger on the trigger of an ancient and battered ZPU intent on spraying your portion of the sky?
I clearly do need to 'grow a pair' 'cos, to my simple mind, guided stuff is eminently dealable-with, whereas unguided is not. And I suspect the very same thoughts are running through the heads of most non-armchair pilots over there...
But to tear myself away from young Henry and his semantics for a second (English is not my first language, Henry) and to keep a fretting Mod happy, let's assume you're tasked with a mission to drop something nasty onto an angry insurgents head. What's uppermost in your mind? The possibility you may fall victim to a well-briefed and trained SF guy hiding in a sand dune with his perfectly maintained Stinger or Igla, or some Random Charlie with his finger on the trigger of an ancient and battered ZPU intent on spraying your portion of the sky?
I clearly do need to 'grow a pair' 'cos, to my simple mind, guided stuff is eminently dealable-with, whereas unguided is not. And I suspect the very same thoughts are running through the heads of most non-armchair pilots over there...
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Hanoijane
I am far from young and am not an armchair pilot. English may not be your first language but in any language the arguments you are making are very confusing. Comment was made on a statement made by you concerning the effectiveness of the arms currently in the possession of the rebels. You said, ... and here it is again
So you don;t think that the arms and munitions in the hands of the current operators are effective. Yet in your post above you are implying that you would rather go in against a highly trained SF operator with Stinger or Igla, than rebels filling the air with lead, because
It may come as a complete shock to you that if you perceive there is a small arms or AAA threat and that manpads are eminently 'dealable with' then you can modify your flight profile and operate above the threat band, or were you only taught to drop bombs from low level? Even the formidable ZSU 23-4 only has an effective operating range of up to 2500 m on a good day and the ZPU's much less.
I am far from young and am not an armchair pilot. English may not be your first language but in any language the arguments you are making are very confusing. Comment was made on a statement made by you concerning the effectiveness of the arms currently in the possession of the rebels. You said, ... and here it is again
Really, when will you guys start to appreciate that what works wonderfully well fresh out the factory on a sanitized range somewhere is next to ******* useless in the real world of half-trained operators, humidity or dust and limited or no servicing facilities?
cos, to my simple mind, guided stuff is eminently dealable-with, whereas unguided is not.
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I was watching a TV clip of the fighting in Libya [lots of blokes running around shooting at aircraft]. In one of the clips someone was holding a MANPAD [if that is the correct acronym] and I could have sworn it was a stinger - the giveaway was the IFF antenna which is rather obvious with the slots in the shape. I'm a civilian and no expert but I have an interest in military technology and I'm 99.9% certain that's what I saw - or is there a similar piece of ex-Warsaw Pact technology ?
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*sigh*
Henry, are you trying to be obtuse? I think I'm in Singapore next week if you'd really like to discuss this...
And I haven't been taught to drop bombs on anyone, Henry. Air-to-ground is a game for individuals lacking both imagination and a conscience.
May I drag you back to the OP's observation, which I sought to correct? Unguided munitions are, indeed, lethal and are the most likely cause of the loss under discussion. MANPADS are viable but - given the specifics of the theatre - are unlikely to be a significant threat.
Now, tell me you love me :-)
Henry, are you trying to be obtuse? I think I'm in Singapore next week if you'd really like to discuss this...
And I haven't been taught to drop bombs on anyone, Henry. Air-to-ground is a game for individuals lacking both imagination and a conscience.
May I drag you back to the OP's observation, which I sought to correct? Unguided munitions are, indeed, lethal and are the most likely cause of the loss under discussion. MANPADS are viable but - given the specifics of the theatre - are unlikely to be a significant threat.
Now, tell me you love me :-)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Hoofie,
Keep an eye out on the following forum. If a Stinger is active in rebel hands it will most likely be noted by these guys?
Libyan Conflict - Photos and Videos
TJ
Keep an eye out on the following forum. If a Stinger is active in rebel hands it will most likely be noted by these guys?
Libyan Conflict - Photos and Videos
TJ
Here's hoping there will soon be a few 'advisers' on hand to show them how to best organise their AA defences
Meanwhile, France has become the first country to recognise the Libyan rebel leadership, the National Libyan Council (NLC), as the country's legitimate government
I was going to say that being showered with hot cases and links would be pretty uncomfortable, then I noticed that the guy in the first photo already has an empty case stuck up his nose!
-D John
-D John