Sukhoi shootdown
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Sukhoi shootdown
Watching the coverage of the rebels being bombed - I wondered if those ancient anti-aircraft guns were any use at all... I suspect not.
What would you need to take out an SU-22 from the ground - a minimum of something like a Stinger?
Are there any MANPADs worth fearing in that part of the world?
It looked like the Libyan pilots were flying pretty high anyway - although hard to judge from TV...
What would you need to take out an SU-22 from the ground - a minimum of something like a Stinger?
Are there any MANPADs worth fearing in that part of the world?
It looked like the Libyan pilots were flying pretty high anyway - although hard to judge from TV...
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Tartare, you're clearly someone who has never experienced the 'destabilising' effect that tracer headed in your direction has on your focus.
On the other side of the coin, were I sitting quietly in a desert somewhere and I saw an angry-looking Sukhoi barreling towards me, would I like to find myself near a cute bells-and-whistles advanced MANPAD or an ancient ZPU 4?
I'll think I'll take the gun, thank you.
Really, when will you guys start to appreciate that what works wonderfully well fresh out the factory on a sanitized range somewhere is next to ******* useless in the real world of half-trained operators, humidity or dust and limited or no servicing facilities?
On the other side of the coin, were I sitting quietly in a desert somewhere and I saw an angry-looking Sukhoi barreling towards me, would I like to find myself near a cute bells-and-whistles advanced MANPAD or an ancient ZPU 4?
I'll think I'll take the gun, thank you.
Really, when will you guys start to appreciate that what works wonderfully well fresh out the factory on a sanitized range somewhere is next to ******* useless in the real world of half-trained operators, humidity or dust and limited or no servicing facilities?
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In the late 70s, when I was in RAFG, the performance and numbers of ZSU 23-4 used to bother me a lot! However, I see no evidence that there are any radar laid AAA devices in Libya, so unless they have enough ammunition to put up a wall of flying metal I think they will just have to hope to get lucky.
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Hanoijane
I am not sure what anyone has said in the 3 posts previous to yours to warrant your comment. Also, just to get things straight, if you can see tracer, then be happy as the ammunition is not headed in your direction. Because of the arc of burn behind the round you cannot see the bullet that is coming directly at you.
Really, when will you guys start to appreciate that what works wonderfully well fresh out the factory on a sanitized range somewhere is next to ******* useless in the real world of half-trained operators, humidity or dust and limited or no servicing facilities?
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All I have seen is haphazard aiming. The art of laying on is lost on an untrained gunner - or laying off. I doubt that Libyan pilots have anything to worry about.
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There has been some TV footage of ZSU-23/4s - albeit clearly damaged/destroyed - parked up inside various towns, and some rebels holding modern looking handheld SAMs (Strela?) too. I can't believe an RPG took down a Su-22, and the more basic visually-guided AAA that the rebels have been having fun making noise with don't look to be much of a threat given the inept way they're being operated...
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Bisley is nothing
That story of the bloke 'who was having his first day with the AA gun with one out of 2 barrels working ,and downed the Sukhoi as it went past', had a distinct aroma of aged Halibut...am I alone in wondering if there was a non-Libyan person with something like a Stinger behind a handy sand dune ?!
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am I alone in wondering if there was a non-Libyan person with something like a Stinger behind a handy sand dune ?!
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A SU-22 would have be parked on the ground at a distance of not more than 500mtrs. To be really effective the RPG has to be closer than that. Firing at moving aircraft could be done as a joke though!
The RPG is an anti-tank/anti personell weapon and to kill a tank it still has to fired at a close range. Now if they had a few Bofors with the required trained crew they could whang off 50-60 rounds a minute, with its very high muzzle velocity - who knows? However, the Libyan gunners etc., are all seemingly untrained rebels - indeed a rabble. But I'll give them 10/10 for guts.
The RPG is an anti-tank/anti personell weapon and to kill a tank it still has to fired at a close range. Now if they had a few Bofors with the required trained crew they could whang off 50-60 rounds a minute, with its very high muzzle velocity - who knows? However, the Libyan gunners etc., are all seemingly untrained rebels - indeed a rabble. But I'll give them 10/10 for guts.
Latest information is that the downed aircraft was an Su-24MK Fencer, not an Su-22 Fitter.
Although a lucky shot with an RPG wouldn't be impossible, it's more likely that the aircraft was shot down by conventional AAA.
An interesting piece from Wikipedia:
Although a lucky shot with an RPG wouldn't be impossible, it's more likely that the aircraft was shot down by conventional AAA.
An interesting piece from Wikipedia:
A Libyan Su-22 crashed near the city of Benghazi, Libya on 23 February 2011. The crew members, Captain Attia Abdel Salem al Abdali and his number two, Ali Omar Gaddafi, were ordered to bomb the city in response to the 2011 Libyan protests. They refused, bailing out of the aircraft and parachuting to the ground. Su-22s also attacked Anti-Gaddafi positions on Ben Jawad in early March 2011 as government forces retook the town.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BEagle, the first report I heard was of a Fencer as well. While it may well have ceased to fly it is perhaps as likely that it simply crashed or was abandoned rather than shot down just like the Su22.
Video of the wreckage of the Su-22UM near Ajdabiya on the 23rd February. The crew ejected as highlighted in post by BEagle.
ASN Aircraft accident 23-FEB-2011 Sukhoi Su-22UM-3K Fitter-G
The shoot down at Ras Lanuf on March 05 was an Su-24. The two-man crew died in the crash.
TJ
ASN Aircraft accident 23-FEB-2011 Sukhoi Su-22UM-3K Fitter-G
The shoot down at Ras Lanuf on March 05 was an Su-24. The two-man crew died in the crash.
TJ
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Is it just me or....
Am I the only one slightly surprised to see a Russian made aircraft in the service of an Arab Air Force showing manufacturer/squadron markings in English in what appears to almost be an American styled squadron badge?
I mean, I'm no conspiracy theorist, but.....
I mean, I'm no conspiracy theorist, but.....
Jabba_TG12,
Nothing unusual in that. The aircraft shot down was serial 38. The following image is Su-24MK, serial 37, imaged in Libya during an airshow. Note the Squadron markings on the tail?
Photos: Sukhoi Su-24MK Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
TJ
Nothing unusual in that. The aircraft shot down was serial 38. The following image is Su-24MK, serial 37, imaged in Libya during an airshow. Note the Squadron markings on the tail?
Photos: Sukhoi Su-24MK Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
TJ
I wondered if those ancient anti-aircraft guns were any use at all... I suspect not.
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Ah, ok Teeej. In fairness thats a pretty good picture. Just struck me as a bit odd thats all. Then again, given its Ghadaffi.... maybe I shouldnt have been so surprised!