Is Pm Cameron Delusional?
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Well said Grabbers...lest we forget we are in this mess because of Gordon Clown!
Is the PM Delusional - far from it - he is the only one making sense compared to the Labour/Left lunatics!
Is the PM Delusional - far from it - he is the only one making sense compared to the Labour/Left lunatics!
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Well said Grabbers...lest we forget we are in this mess because of Gordon Clown!
Is the PM Delusional - far from it - he is the only one making sense compared to the Labour/Left lunatics!
Is the PM Delusional - far from it - he is the only one making sense compared to the Labour/Left lunatics!
They are all incompetent, that is why they are politicians.
They waste billions of £'s and no one bats an eyelid, they are not even accountable, what a job.
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I know, send Dave Clanggerbafoon and his Merry Prats to Military training send them out to some Sh*t hole have a few of the MP's lose limbs, become seriously wounded or be killed (no disrespect to our forces lads and lasses, God bless em)....Slowly hack away the equipment they have. Move their families in to some sh*tty quarter, raise the rent, cut the allowences, then when they come back from the said sh*t hole sack em....
The "Great" in Britain has been removed until further notice.
Don't think he should worry about revolutions in the Middle East...he's needs to look closer to home
I cannot believe what is happening to our beloved forces right now
The "Great" in Britain has been removed until further notice.
Don't think he should worry about revolutions in the Middle East...he's needs to look closer to home
I cannot believe what is happening to our beloved forces right now
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"They are all incompetent, that is why they are politicians.
They waste billions of £'s and no one bats an eyelid, they are not even accountable, what a job."
So I assume you are talking about the MOD here?
As far as being incompetent, I think that trying to get the country's economy back on track, repairing the damage done to the social well beingof this country is exactly what they sould be doing!
"I cannot believe what is happening to our beloved forces right now"
I cannot believe what HAS happened to our beloved country for the past 13 years - there lies the real disaster.
They waste billions of £'s and no one bats an eyelid, they are not even accountable, what a job."
So I assume you are talking about the MOD here?
As far as being incompetent, I think that trying to get the country's economy back on track, repairing the damage done to the social well beingof this country is exactly what they sould be doing!
"I cannot believe what is happening to our beloved forces right now"
I cannot believe what HAS happened to our beloved country for the past 13 years - there lies the real disaster.
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Oh Snagged, open your eyes, its been going on a LOT longer than 13 years and 1 Liebour government - THEY'RE ALL THE SAME!!!! Defence cuts of 1982? 89? 93? (or whatever years they were - its not the point) in a Liebour government now... Very few of them are in it out of altruism or to defend or guide the country! Hell, how many of them have had REAL jobs in the REAL world? How many of them went to REAL schools or colleges? How many of them have half an idea what the forces do? What being on the breadline is like? what being made redundant is like?
Repairing the social wellbeing of this country? By ripping the heart out of it? I don't think that'll work somehow... Seems to me all they're doing is protecting the rich banking elite further - you know - the ones who actually got us into this mess in the first place, with the help of the politicians!
All the same - Tories, Limp Dims, Liebour. And you know its bad when even the Hate Mail and Express turn on the Tories.
Repairing the social wellbeing of this country? By ripping the heart out of it? I don't think that'll work somehow... Seems to me all they're doing is protecting the rich banking elite further - you know - the ones who actually got us into this mess in the first place, with the help of the politicians!
All the same - Tories, Limp Dims, Liebour. And you know its bad when even the Hate Mail and Express turn on the Tories.
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Postman,
Thank you, eyes are very much open.
Ripping the heart out of the country?
Have you been spending too much time with those idoits at UNITE?
The problem is that this country has grown a generation of work shy morons who would rather live off benefits, and expect the government to pay for everything (health, university, etc) - they fail to realise that someone has to pay taxes to do so! Chaps like those at the Union who think that a company that is struggling to make money should still pay their people more and more...
I get fed up of heaing about the "banking elite" being evil etc - get real. The banking industry generates huge wealth for this country, not only in raw taxes, but in the knock on effects of money spent.
Thank you, eyes are very much open.
Ripping the heart out of the country?
Have you been spending too much time with those idoits at UNITE?
The problem is that this country has grown a generation of work shy morons who would rather live off benefits, and expect the government to pay for everything (health, university, etc) - they fail to realise that someone has to pay taxes to do so! Chaps like those at the Union who think that a company that is struggling to make money should still pay their people more and more...
I get fed up of heaing about the "banking elite" being evil etc - get real. The banking industry generates huge wealth for this country, not only in raw taxes, but in the knock on effects of money spent.
The reason Britain has been in decline since at least 1960 is that you worship the upper classes and insist on being governed and managed by Oxbridge educated twits who make a virtue out of never, ever, getting their hands dirty.
This practice, at the very least, cost you your electronics industry, your aircraft industry and your car industry. You compensated by inventing a new industry based on financial masturbation in "The City". Tell us how well that worked out?
Oxford, Cambridge, Eton? Len Deighton described them as nothing more than "Group therapy for congenital deviates". Cameron merely continues a long tradition.
This practice, at the very least, cost you your electronics industry, your aircraft industry and your car industry. You compensated by inventing a new industry based on financial masturbation in "The City". Tell us how well that worked out?
Oxford, Cambridge, Eton? Len Deighton described them as nothing more than "Group therapy for congenital deviates". Cameron merely continues a long tradition.
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I would suggest that less than 10% of MP's have any real conception of what the Armed Forces actually do. Any member of the "Great British Public" born after 1940 would only know if they had actually served.
The Cadet Corps such as the ATC are a fraction of the size they were when I was a 14 year old - and almost all the School Units have disappeared.
Rudyard Kipling put it far better than I can:-
"Its Tommy this and Tommy that and "Chuck him out the Brute" - but its "Saviour of his Country" when the guns begin to shoot".
The trouble is that it will be too late to rectify the deficiences once the shooting has started.
The Cadet Corps such as the ATC are a fraction of the size they were when I was a 14 year old - and almost all the School Units have disappeared.
Rudyard Kipling put it far better than I can:-
"Its Tommy this and Tommy that and "Chuck him out the Brute" - but its "Saviour of his Country" when the guns begin to shoot".
The trouble is that it will be too late to rectify the deficiences once the shooting has started.
sunfish,
..."cost us our aircraft industry?"
How the hell do you work that out sport? The UK has the second largest aerospace industry on the planet, to be any bigger it would have to be larger than that of the US, hardly likely is it?
Ever been anywhere near Oxford or Cambridge?
..."cost us our aircraft industry?"
How the hell do you work that out sport? The UK has the second largest aerospace industry on the planet, to be any bigger it would have to be larger than that of the US, hardly likely is it?
Ever been anywhere near Oxford or Cambridge?
Proone:
You perfectly demonstrate the British management mentality.... "How dare you criticise me? I'm the manager!"
You make aircraft components. What was the last civil aircraft you built? The BAe 146? Tell me about the quality control on the RR Trent that let go out of Singapore on the Qantas A380.
Take the wonderful Morris Mini - it was a revolutionary car when it was released - then your industry sat on its fat backside and didn't develop it while the Japanese caught up. The industry did exactly the same thing with the Range Rover.
Where is the Harrier Mk II? Ground breaking technology again, now going out of service.
It always seems the same - brilliant initial concept and design, then the dead hand of British Oxbridge thinking kills it stone dead, and always from a failure to accept feedback from customers and the workers who build things - "the shop floor".
The other defining characteristic of the management/governing class is a total backward looking focus on the days when Britain was "Great", does the BBC still run those black and white war movies on Sunday afternoons?
..."cost us our aircraft industry?"
How the hell do you work that out sport? The UK has the second largest aerospace industry on the planet, to be any bigger it would have to be larger than that of the US, hardly likely is it?
Ever been anywhere near Oxford or Cambridge?
How the hell do you work that out sport? The UK has the second largest aerospace industry on the planet, to be any bigger it would have to be larger than that of the US, hardly likely is it?
Ever been anywhere near Oxford or Cambridge?
You make aircraft components. What was the last civil aircraft you built? The BAe 146? Tell me about the quality control on the RR Trent that let go out of Singapore on the Qantas A380.
Take the wonderful Morris Mini - it was a revolutionary car when it was released - then your industry sat on its fat backside and didn't develop it while the Japanese caught up. The industry did exactly the same thing with the Range Rover.
Where is the Harrier Mk II? Ground breaking technology again, now going out of service.
It always seems the same - brilliant initial concept and design, then the dead hand of British Oxbridge thinking kills it stone dead, and always from a failure to accept feedback from customers and the workers who build things - "the shop floor".
The other defining characteristic of the management/governing class is a total backward looking focus on the days when Britain was "Great", does the BBC still run those black and white war movies on Sunday afternoons?
He is a politician thereby answering your question.
Politicians Raison D'etre solely is to get re-elected until they start realising their own mortality when they then wish to leave a Legacy.
Politicians Raison D'etre solely is to get re-elected until they start realising their own mortality when they then wish to leave a Legacy.
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Sunfish
I think some of your comments are a bit like the Pot calling the kettle black.
"It always seems the same - brilliant initial concept and design, then the dead hand of British Oxbridge thinking kills it stone dead, and always from a failure to accept feedback from customers and the workers who build things - "the shop floor"."
Australia has an appaling record of coming up with great ideas but industry not running on them. The "Black Box" being just ONE of the better known one's.
And I wouldn't say the Aust MILITARY aircraft industry - and I incude Defence in that which includes the planning component - is any better - we seem to have a habit of cocking up most purchases which involve anything other than "off the shelf".
And as for " The reason Britain has been in decline since at least 1960 is that you worship the upper classes and insist on being governed and managed by Oxbridge educated twits who make a virtue out of never, ever, getting their hands dirty."
Well, that's a very broad statement. I could name quite a few I know personally at the Upper end of Australian industry who went through OxCam - including one recent PM, the ex head of the largest Gas Company in Aust, the ex head of the one of the top 4 banks and many others and they all seem good at getting the hands dirty.
The British car industry - just like a lot of indusries, INCLUDING Australia's car industry - they move around the world. The only reason Australia still has a car industry is becaue the gov't keeps doing sweetheart deals here with the Manufacturers because they can't face reality. The US lost it's clothing manufacturing industry to Mexico and China and even now it is moving on to other "lower cost" locations in other countries. Japan - electronics, now China and Taiwan.
That's just my HO.
snagged1
Plenty of "work shy morons who would rather live off benefits" in Australia as well, you don't have exclusive on that !
I think some of your comments are a bit like the Pot calling the kettle black.
"It always seems the same - brilliant initial concept and design, then the dead hand of British Oxbridge thinking kills it stone dead, and always from a failure to accept feedback from customers and the workers who build things - "the shop floor"."
Australia has an appaling record of coming up with great ideas but industry not running on them. The "Black Box" being just ONE of the better known one's.
And I wouldn't say the Aust MILITARY aircraft industry - and I incude Defence in that which includes the planning component - is any better - we seem to have a habit of cocking up most purchases which involve anything other than "off the shelf".
And as for " The reason Britain has been in decline since at least 1960 is that you worship the upper classes and insist on being governed and managed by Oxbridge educated twits who make a virtue out of never, ever, getting their hands dirty."
Well, that's a very broad statement. I could name quite a few I know personally at the Upper end of Australian industry who went through OxCam - including one recent PM, the ex head of the largest Gas Company in Aust, the ex head of the one of the top 4 banks and many others and they all seem good at getting the hands dirty.
The British car industry - just like a lot of indusries, INCLUDING Australia's car industry - they move around the world. The only reason Australia still has a car industry is becaue the gov't keeps doing sweetheart deals here with the Manufacturers because they can't face reality. The US lost it's clothing manufacturing industry to Mexico and China and even now it is moving on to other "lower cost" locations in other countries. Japan - electronics, now China and Taiwan.
That's just my HO.
snagged1
Plenty of "work shy morons who would rather live off benefits" in Australia as well, you don't have exclusive on that !
Last edited by 500N; 2nd Mar 2011 at 21:57.
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I agree with Sunfish. Port swilling, self-important, empire builders.
I also agree with 500N 'cos I'm Irish & the Ozzies did for Ned Kelly.
Other than the above comments I think that I'll sit on the fence on this one as I suspect M. Collins wished he had too!
Anyway England - ready for your Grand Slam stopper?
I also agree with 500N 'cos I'm Irish & the Ozzies did for Ned Kelly.
Other than the above comments I think that I'll sit on the fence on this one as I suspect M. Collins wished he had too!
Anyway England - ready for your Grand Slam stopper?
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My company (only indirectly defence related) used to make a range of products. Most of which lost money. We then stripped down, and now make money out of supporting the loss-making (but world beating) products we used to make. We also have the next generation of world-beaters, but we don't sell the old ones.
Drawing a parallel with the wider industries of the UK, the inability to make a profit out of small projects has been the killer for years. If you're going to build something high value for the government, sell hundreds, preferably thousands of them. If you can't identify the markets to do that, don't do it at all. Or if you are going to do it, make sure it's government funded, with a cast-iron contract.
Actually, in preference, do both. Thousands of them with government funding.
Drawing a parallel with the wider industries of the UK, the inability to make a profit out of small projects has been the killer for years. If you're going to build something high value for the government, sell hundreds, preferably thousands of them. If you can't identify the markets to do that, don't do it at all. Or if you are going to do it, make sure it's government funded, with a cast-iron contract.
Actually, in preference, do both. Thousands of them with government funding.
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The old assumption was that servicemen tended to vote Tory; at least there was a perception that servicemen tended to vote Tory well out of proportion to the wider voting population. There are some obvious exceptions of course, such as the post WWII election of the Attlee government, but otherwise a fair assumption to make.
But we've seen repeated shocks to the system, unwelcome outcomes from Tory administrations, eg: the 1957 White Paper; the savage cuts planned under John Nott; Options for Change. These surely must have tested many Tory - leaning servicemen and women, but compared to those the 2010 SDSR appears to be a catalyst for a more profound shift.
But where? To whom? Labour is hardly a natural home (despite the number of service personnel who are Labour voters); the Lib Dems appear further to the left than Labour at times (at least from here they do, much like the Australian Democrats did until their demise). UKIP? A handful of nutters might dally with the BNP.
Have the Tories decided that defence is now such a small vote that (a) it can be ignored as its electoral effects are so limited; or (b) that defence voters have nowhere else to go? Has SDSR 2010 broken the Conservative - Forces bond for good?
Disclaimer - I'm an outsider looking in, and looking in with a sense of dread and despair. I feel like I'm watching an organisation for which I have always had an enormous affection and respect being torn apart by the cynical and short-sighted. This doesn't affect me nor my soldiers - at least not directly - but as 'family' and as allies it sickens me.
But we've seen repeated shocks to the system, unwelcome outcomes from Tory administrations, eg: the 1957 White Paper; the savage cuts planned under John Nott; Options for Change. These surely must have tested many Tory - leaning servicemen and women, but compared to those the 2010 SDSR appears to be a catalyst for a more profound shift.
But where? To whom? Labour is hardly a natural home (despite the number of service personnel who are Labour voters); the Lib Dems appear further to the left than Labour at times (at least from here they do, much like the Australian Democrats did until their demise). UKIP? A handful of nutters might dally with the BNP.
Have the Tories decided that defence is now such a small vote that (a) it can be ignored as its electoral effects are so limited; or (b) that defence voters have nowhere else to go? Has SDSR 2010 broken the Conservative - Forces bond for good?
Disclaimer - I'm an outsider looking in, and looking in with a sense of dread and despair. I feel like I'm watching an organisation for which I have always had an enormous affection and respect being torn apart by the cynical and short-sighted. This doesn't affect me nor my soldiers - at least not directly - but as 'family' and as allies it sickens me.
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You sort of get an idea of what it must have been like for the Roman Legionnaires around AD 300 as they stood on the Roman Empire's borders defending them... only to discover that, along with their pay packets, the very core of the Empire, Rome, had imploded and disappeared up its own fundamental orifice.
History, I fear, is repeating itself.
I just hope it doesn't do so to the point where our grandchildren have to endure another thousand year Dark Ages.
History, I fear, is repeating itself.
I just hope it doesn't do so to the point where our grandchildren have to endure another thousand year Dark Ages.
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Supposedly somewhere in the last 5 pages is the reason why we couldn't deploy 16 (current FE@R - or at least SDSR FE@R as I recall) Typhoon to the Libyan NFZ. After all they have yet to deploy and they must be itching to be seen to do something other than Falklands and UK QRA.