SDSR versus Real World Events
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In earlier posts I really hoped that that the whole Libyan NEO/JPR topic would be safely put to bed, with some well deserved praise for the Herc crews and SF contingent, with only the fallout of a big flashing warning light and very noisy klaxon sounding for the the current HMG on continuing with this current folly of a treasury led reduction in the UK's military capability that has now, and will in the future, put UK nationals lives at risk.
I wondered how many times the PM and Foreign Minister would have to say 'sorry' during their time in office and I really hoped that no loss off life would come as a result of SDSR, especially after all the high level, experienced and respected advice from all quarters that are saying very loudly to stop and reconsider.
I also hope that the Sunday Times report this morning on SAS personnel being taken hostage is media hype and a non event, but regardless of Libya this scenario is very real and highly likely to happen again between now and the much lauded Force 2020.
I have absolutely no idea what contingency plans are in place, but irrespective of Afghanistan a carrier and amphibious task force, already in or on the way to the Med would be able to present the Prime Minister with so many more options than he currently has (and I so want to get away from the very negative single service atmosphere in all levels of defence at the moment). I use the carrier and Fishead piece as an example for this scenario, and also include Maritime Patrol and over all FE@R.
Let's hope that the PM's view on a Euro Defence Force and Coalition approach will see the French, Italians or the US help us out of the corner where the treasury has backed us.
I wondered how many times the PM and Foreign Minister would have to say 'sorry' during their time in office and I really hoped that no loss off life would come as a result of SDSR, especially after all the high level, experienced and respected advice from all quarters that are saying very loudly to stop and reconsider.
I also hope that the Sunday Times report this morning on SAS personnel being taken hostage is media hype and a non event, but regardless of Libya this scenario is very real and highly likely to happen again between now and the much lauded Force 2020.
I have absolutely no idea what contingency plans are in place, but irrespective of Afghanistan a carrier and amphibious task force, already in or on the way to the Med would be able to present the Prime Minister with so many more options than he currently has (and I so want to get away from the very negative single service atmosphere in all levels of defence at the moment). I use the carrier and Fishead piece as an example for this scenario, and also include Maritime Patrol and over all FE@R.
Let's hope that the PM's view on a Euro Defence Force and Coalition approach will see the French, Italians or the US help us out of the corner where the treasury has backed us.
Right back to a first page posting which included a suggestion that the public would pay an extra £50 a head to the Armed Forces in the way of additional funding.
I agree that if it were ring fenced, many, but not all would pay it.
I also suggest that given £50 a head, the expenditure would not pay back the £38billion, but would in fact increase it as more than £50 per head would be spent, and most likely on assets which would have zero use in the current Libyan/Egyptian theatre.
Sad to say, it would get spent on carrier, Nimrod and other glory projects which would be sfa use to the current situation.
Just my 2p....
I agree that if it were ring fenced, many, but not all would pay it.
I also suggest that given £50 a head, the expenditure would not pay back the £38billion, but would in fact increase it as more than £50 per head would be spent, and most likely on assets which would have zero use in the current Libyan/Egyptian theatre.
Sad to say, it would get spent on carrier, Nimrod and other glory projects which would be sfa use to the current situation.
Just my 2p....
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Graham
Yes, because that's why France, Spain, Italy and the US are sending their carriers to the Med.
Because of their uselessness.
All these countries plus all the other countries with carriers and all those currently building them have decided that in these financially stretched times what is really need is a useless carrier.
Or B.
You just don't get it
Yes, because that's why France, Spain, Italy and the US are sending their carriers to the Med.
Because of their uselessness.
All these countries plus all the other countries with carriers and all those currently building them have decided that in these financially stretched times what is really need is a useless carrier.
Or B.
You just don't get it
I get it 100%.
Sadly what many (apparently including yourself) cannot get is that the MOD is institutionally incapable of spending only the money we taxpayers provide, hence the £38 billion overspend on things which are as yet unfinished. Thats not to say that a whole lot of other money has rightly been provided for operations which are underway.
Maybe if Nimrod, Typhoon, T45, Astute had not been such a financial disaster then there actually might be some money left for the carriers ? The taxpayer is not a bottomless bucket of cash for MOD to spend as it sees fit is it ?
Other countries do not have a £38 Billion ovespend on unfinished projects do they ?
Maybe their governments believe that given the money for a couple of carriers for a budget, they will actually deliver something on time, to spec and to budget.
There is no more money, MOD have had it all, spent it and no more is coming MOD's way for a while. The recent approach to Cameron by 50 members of the military to seek to re-open the SDSR is a simple begging bowl for more money. Maybe after a few years of showing that it can live within a budget, someone in government might give the MOD some more money.
The collective MOD have nobody to blame but themselves that the public support them as great fighting individuals, but as people who have zero credibility when it comes to sticking to a budget, and doing what they promised in terms of delivery.
Sadly what many (apparently including yourself) cannot get is that the MOD is institutionally incapable of spending only the money we taxpayers provide, hence the £38 billion overspend on things which are as yet unfinished. Thats not to say that a whole lot of other money has rightly been provided for operations which are underway.
Maybe if Nimrod, Typhoon, T45, Astute had not been such a financial disaster then there actually might be some money left for the carriers ? The taxpayer is not a bottomless bucket of cash for MOD to spend as it sees fit is it ?
Other countries do not have a £38 Billion ovespend on unfinished projects do they ?
Maybe their governments believe that given the money for a couple of carriers for a budget, they will actually deliver something on time, to spec and to budget.
There is no more money, MOD have had it all, spent it and no more is coming MOD's way for a while. The recent approach to Cameron by 50 members of the military to seek to re-open the SDSR is a simple begging bowl for more money. Maybe after a few years of showing that it can live within a budget, someone in government might give the MOD some more money.
The collective MOD have nobody to blame but themselves that the public support them as great fighting individuals, but as people who have zero credibility when it comes to sticking to a budget, and doing what they promised in terms of delivery.
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I thought that I would just put another thread back up to the top that echos that the current Government must surely now look at their SDSR and recognise that they cannot have capability holidays all the way through to Force 2020.
Even I am surprised at how the PM boldly and enthusiastically leads a forward leaning Foreign Policy and yet equally allows his Treasury and Ministry of Defence to erode the very tools that he requires to assist this foreign policy.
This has got to stop-he cannot have his cake and eat it. Either the Governement align their foreign policy to the resources ( and much publicised debt) or they accept that that the defence of the nationl and national interests will require funding.
To para phrase Dr Fox, there are indeed difficult decisions ahead, and one of them is to have the humility to admit that he and the Governement were wrong and that SDSR/Planning Rounds should be aware of the realities of the Foreign Policy the PM is leading and the unforeseen world events and disasters that equally the PM has absolutely no control, but will still require the countries military.
Please can someone ensure that the politicians stop being so arrogant and ignorant, and just alike the woods and forests, admit that you were wrong and will put it right. It is too late for the Nimrod, and for the young pilots already chopped, but maybe not the carrier, Harrier, new CH47s, Pumas, and the host of other capabilities that have the either been cut or have the sword of damoclese continually hanging over them.
Even I am surprised at how the PM boldly and enthusiastically leads a forward leaning Foreign Policy and yet equally allows his Treasury and Ministry of Defence to erode the very tools that he requires to assist this foreign policy.
This has got to stop-he cannot have his cake and eat it. Either the Governement align their foreign policy to the resources ( and much publicised debt) or they accept that that the defence of the nationl and national interests will require funding.
To para phrase Dr Fox, there are indeed difficult decisions ahead, and one of them is to have the humility to admit that he and the Governement were wrong and that SDSR/Planning Rounds should be aware of the realities of the Foreign Policy the PM is leading and the unforeseen world events and disasters that equally the PM has absolutely no control, but will still require the countries military.
Please can someone ensure that the politicians stop being so arrogant and ignorant, and just alike the woods and forests, admit that you were wrong and will put it right. It is too late for the Nimrod, and for the young pilots already chopped, but maybe not the carrier, Harrier, new CH47s, Pumas, and the host of other capabilities that have the either been cut or have the sword of damoclese continually hanging over them.
