Quarter of RAF trainee pilots to be sacked
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Getting my wings was one of the proudest days of my life.
I read the telegraph article on the flightdeck of my 777 on the way back home today with a big lump in my throat.
I loved my RAF days (12 yrs) but jumped to BA 5 years ago and havent looked back.
Any RAF student pilot who would like any advice about airline flying, or the options available to them, please PM me.
A very sad day.
I read the telegraph article on the flightdeck of my 777 on the way back home today with a big lump in my throat.
I loved my RAF days (12 yrs) but jumped to BA 5 years ago and havent looked back.
Any RAF student pilot who would like any advice about airline flying, or the options available to them, please PM me.
A very sad day.
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Beagle, although I am more than capable of appreciating the banter :-) in the long run I think one shade of blue will probably have a more prosperous future than the other. But agreed, today is a sad day whichever your persuasion, no-one likes to see the decimation of the forces of whatever stripe
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AVM Green just briefed the official line at Cranwell , he's on route DHFS now , not good news at all !! alot of very very sad people. He started with a huge apology for the leak , I'll say no more I'm sure all the bars will be buzzing by 6 tonight.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Good to note your banter-detector is on top line, On_Loan!
As (I think) Cazatou wrote earlier, things have now reached the stage where any unforeseen surge requirement would be impossible to meet.
There are virtually no available QFIs in the system free to train additional QFIs, no C&M aerodromes available for emergency reactivation, no fleets of training aircraft in mothballs or available at short notice....
Last time a small surge was needed, some folk were hoiked out of the front line to go to CFS so that the demand for additional new pilots could be met. That meant the front line working a little harder until augmentees filtered through. Conversely, some UAS QFIs went back to the front line during GW1....where are such people now, should the need arise? There aren't any. Which is perhaps just as well as they wouldn't have anything to to fly in any case.
And that was just to train future pilots in the art of big cows, small cows. The problem is far more severe for specialists such as Nimrod rear crew instructors whose experience will be essential when it comes to teaching newcomers, once Cameron's folly has proved to be as such.
I recall the exasperated words of a USN exchange officer on 56(F) back in 1982..."Royal Air Force? Hell, I've known aero clubs with more goddam airplanes!"
I left when I saw the control column starting to move aft and the rudder pedals starting to move. Then watched as the aircraft which was once the RAF departed and went incipient. Now it's in the fully developed spin and people with any experience will be punching out before it's too late...
As (I think) Cazatou wrote earlier, things have now reached the stage where any unforeseen surge requirement would be impossible to meet.
There are virtually no available QFIs in the system free to train additional QFIs, no C&M aerodromes available for emergency reactivation, no fleets of training aircraft in mothballs or available at short notice....
Last time a small surge was needed, some folk were hoiked out of the front line to go to CFS so that the demand for additional new pilots could be met. That meant the front line working a little harder until augmentees filtered through. Conversely, some UAS QFIs went back to the front line during GW1....where are such people now, should the need arise? There aren't any. Which is perhaps just as well as they wouldn't have anything to to fly in any case.
And that was just to train future pilots in the art of big cows, small cows. The problem is far more severe for specialists such as Nimrod rear crew instructors whose experience will be essential when it comes to teaching newcomers, once Cameron's folly has proved to be as such.
I recall the exasperated words of a USN exchange officer on 56(F) back in 1982..."Royal Air Force? Hell, I've known aero clubs with more goddam airplanes!"
I left when I saw the control column starting to move aft and the rudder pedals starting to move. Then watched as the aircraft which was once the RAF departed and went incipient. Now it's in the fully developed spin and people with any experience will be punching out before it's too late...
Gentleman Aviator
It seems to me that the aim is to slice the side off the pyramid.
) have to get and still justify a 4* Chief and a 4* CinC....
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All,
after a quarter of a century in this Air Force, I just wrote a short note in my diary......... Bu&&er!
To all the unfortunates out there, all I can say is I personally feel for you all, and truely hope you all get through this utter cluster fl1p with your souls intact.
Most of the older posters here have seen Defence Reviews, but this is nothing short of blatant, cash grabbing vandalism. I believe, history will record as much.
Finally, and it hurts me to say, I don't think the worst is over yet. It may have been a very calculating choice to wield the axe at Pilots first. The natural sentiment being, 'If they will do that to them (the 2 winged masters) non of us are safe!'
Good Luck All for the future, I hope your next employer holds your skills in better regard than HMG clearly does.
Advo
after a quarter of a century in this Air Force, I just wrote a short note in my diary......... Bu&&er!
To all the unfortunates out there, all I can say is I personally feel for you all, and truely hope you all get through this utter cluster fl1p with your souls intact.
Most of the older posters here have seen Defence Reviews, but this is nothing short of blatant, cash grabbing vandalism. I believe, history will record as much.
Finally, and it hurts me to say, I don't think the worst is over yet. It may have been a very calculating choice to wield the axe at Pilots first. The natural sentiment being, 'If they will do that to them (the 2 winged masters) non of us are safe!'
Good Luck All for the future, I hope your next employer holds your skills in better regard than HMG clearly does.
Advo
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My heart goes out to any young aspiring RAF pilots, who have had their dream shattered. I can only imagine the heartache they are suffering.......
To get so far and to be shafted like this is awful.
To get so far and to be shafted like this is awful.
Have just rxd an email from the RAF press office saying
quickly followed by another apologising for a typo
airsound
MOD Spokesperson said: ‘Due to the reduction of the RAF’s aircraft fleet the number of student pilots in the Flying Training Pipeline will be reduced by up to 175. There will be some redundancies but we will, where possible, consider alternative roles for these trainees. This will not have an impact on operations.’
MOD Spokesperson said: ‘Due to the reduction of the RAF’s aircraft fleet the number of student pilots in the Flying Training Pipeline will be reduced by up to 170. There will be some redundancies but we will, where possible, consider alternative roles for these trainees. This will not have an impact on operations.’
Red On, Green On
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quickly followed by another apologising for a typo
Quote:
MOD Spokesperson said: ‘Due to the reduction of the RAF’s aircraft fleet the number of student pilots in the Flying Training Pipeline will be reduced by up to 170. There will be some redundancies but we will, where possible, consider alternative roles for these trainees. This will not have an impact on operations.’
Quote:
MOD Spokesperson said: ‘Due to the reduction of the RAF’s aircraft fleet the number of student pilots in the Flying Training Pipeline will be reduced by up to 170. There will be some redundancies but we will, where possible, consider alternative roles for these trainees. This will not have an impact on operations.’
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re: RN Comments
Firstly I'd like to offer my sympathy to any of those being made redundant, especially those who haven't finished training.
In reply to those discussing RN fixed wing, Naval Standards Fixed Wing are not a large organisation by any means. They use FRADU-parented Hawks, but the organisation itself is an agent of CFS. See link below:
Royal Navy
Anyone arguing that they should be cut as a cost-saving measure should surely realise that this and their other important roles would have to be carried out by someone else therefore saving nothing.
Both the RN and RAF think that they've had it worst post-SDSR. As there are lots of people putting the RAF p.o.v, here's mine:
1) The RN has lost it's ENTIRE FW capability for a "gap". This has already happened. Yes Harrier was Joint but it's loss (and the subsequent retention of GR4) cannot be seen as primarily a loss to the RAF. Think of the guys who moved from SHAR at Yeovilton to Cottesmore/Wittering to now be without an aircraft.
2) RN pilots training in the states. All those on AV-8B loan were returned "negative coffee" after we backed out of the STOVL JSF. Those on F-18 remain, although in minute numbers. Yes you do need to keep people flying from carriers.
3) MR4A. An RAF asset but it's primary role was to protect SSBNs. Although SSBNs are a UK rather than an RN asset again it could be argued that the loss MPA hits the RN (in terms of capability) as much if not more than the RAF.
4) The current over-burden of pilots is not just a result of SDSR cut-backs. Holdovers in both Services have been ridiculous for some time now. The RN has not ruled out compulsory redundancy for aircrew, and we are looking at losing 1 in 7 of FAA personnel in the next 5 years.
5) If the new Chinook buy is cancelled, the RAF will fight tooth and nail to keep Merlin Mk3. This may leave CHF in a precarious position. Embarking 1 or 2 Chinooks (as another post alluded to) for a period of embarked flying is not the same as getting the most from a seaborne platform which is what RN aviation is all about.
In reply to those discussing RN fixed wing, Naval Standards Fixed Wing are not a large organisation by any means. They use FRADU-parented Hawks, but the organisation itself is an agent of CFS. See link below:
Royal Navy
Anyone arguing that they should be cut as a cost-saving measure should surely realise that this and their other important roles would have to be carried out by someone else therefore saving nothing.
Both the RN and RAF think that they've had it worst post-SDSR. As there are lots of people putting the RAF p.o.v, here's mine:
1) The RN has lost it's ENTIRE FW capability for a "gap". This has already happened. Yes Harrier was Joint but it's loss (and the subsequent retention of GR4) cannot be seen as primarily a loss to the RAF. Think of the guys who moved from SHAR at Yeovilton to Cottesmore/Wittering to now be without an aircraft.
2) RN pilots training in the states. All those on AV-8B loan were returned "negative coffee" after we backed out of the STOVL JSF. Those on F-18 remain, although in minute numbers. Yes you do need to keep people flying from carriers.
3) MR4A. An RAF asset but it's primary role was to protect SSBNs. Although SSBNs are a UK rather than an RN asset again it could be argued that the loss MPA hits the RN (in terms of capability) as much if not more than the RAF.
4) The current over-burden of pilots is not just a result of SDSR cut-backs. Holdovers in both Services have been ridiculous for some time now. The RN has not ruled out compulsory redundancy for aircrew, and we are looking at losing 1 in 7 of FAA personnel in the next 5 years.
5) If the new Chinook buy is cancelled, the RAF will fight tooth and nail to keep Merlin Mk3. This may leave CHF in a precarious position. Embarking 1 or 2 Chinooks (as another post alluded to) for a period of embarked flying is not the same as getting the most from a seaborne platform which is what RN aviation is all about.
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Firstly, condolences to those who got the bad news - as Kinloss aircrew we're probably getting it in a few weeks / months.
Secondly, does anyone know when the detailed information about redundancies will be coming out? Could have sworn it said in the IBN that it would be out today..... Anyone?
Secondly, does anyone know when the detailed information about redundancies will be coming out? Could have sworn it said in the IBN that it would be out today..... Anyone?
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Switch on Lofty,
Can't disagree with your sentiment, but it is based on acceptance of the principles of the review.
I personally understand the (Big) problem as well as the next guy, but axing key future mil pilots is folly, and only pennies saved. This is a cynical book balancing act, short and simple. No Plan, No Thought, No Idea of Real Impacts.
I go back to my earlier comment: History will record this as just cost cutting, with political backing.
Advo
Can't disagree with your sentiment, but it is based on acceptance of the principles of the review.
I personally understand the (Big) problem as well as the next guy, but axing key future mil pilots is folly, and only pennies saved. This is a cynical book balancing act, short and simple. No Plan, No Thought, No Idea of Real Impacts.
I go back to my earlier comment: History will record this as just cost cutting, with political backing.
Advo
letsgoandfly
March 1st is when the fine details come out of which branches, numbers etc. There was a release on Feb 1 stating the rationale etc - a turgid 20 odd pages trying to justify the slicing to come..not a great day for the RAF
March 1st is when the fine details come out of which branches, numbers etc. There was a release on Feb 1 stating the rationale etc - a turgid 20 odd pages trying to justify the slicing to come..not a great day for the RAF
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but axing key future mil pilots is folly, and only pennies saved
one concern i have is how this recent cut in trainees will affect future decisions on base closures.
beeb piece mentioned a figure of 35% of trainee pilots to go (they didn't say where that figure came from) plus a large number of civilian support staff to go too.
seems nothing is safe.
(and was that Lucan in local??)
beeb piece mentioned a figure of 35% of trainee pilots to go (they didn't say where that figure came from) plus a large number of civilian support staff to go too.
seems nothing is safe.
(and was that Lucan in local??)