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Quarter of RAF trainee pilots to be sacked

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Quarter of RAF trainee pilots to be sacked

Old 26th Feb 2011, 14:50
  #321 (permalink)  
 
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I'm going to play the devils advocate and ask why should we give generous remuneration packages to the trainees about to go out the door?

At no stage through training is anyone guaranteed a job on the front line and the 'pass mark' for training is effectively whatever standard the MoD requires to fill the available slots. Right now we need cock all pilots so the pass mark has just been raised by about 30%. Obviously this will be devastating for a lot of people who have dreamed of a career as aircrew, but they have received some of the highest quality flying training available and a reasonable salary while doing it - there are worse situations to be in!

Whilst I think it would be nice to give these guys a helping hand back into civilian life I also think people are dreaming to think that we are in a position to offer them anywhere near the generous packages being rumoured (e.g. a years salary while they study for their civvy licences and then a generous lump sum for redundancy). These people were still under training so why should they be offered better terms than someone who has served longer and completed productive operational tours elsewhere in the RAF? Quite simply they shouldn't.

The RAF would be quite within their rights to pay them till the end of the month and send them packing, but I really hope they don't resort to that.
Aynayda Pizaqvick is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2011, 15:36
  #322 (permalink)  
 
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@davejb

We must be born to disagree

It's a 'one off' cost,
Sorry, but few in government believes that after a decade of history on Nimrod.
Many might suggest the priority is right that we can help millions of families with the money saved through not believing any more that anyone on Nimrod can estimate and can be trusted with money.

Gamblers logic again - "just one more bet will make it alright"
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 16:40
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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Good grief!
I was pointing out that the money allegedly saved from not running Nimrod for a year would more than cover the cost of what I suggested...it's nothing whatsoever to do with operating Nimrods, I was merely pointing to one source of money (as an example) to fund it that many on here would be familiar with.

Typical, you use the word 'Nimrod' in anything and it's automatically bad...
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 17:20
  #324 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry but why should they receive any extra help other than that offered to the rest of the non aircrew personnel being made redundant? There have been many Branch / Trade reductions over the years and I don't recall the individuals being offered anything other than the redundancy package and the normal resettlement courses. Sorry to appear heartless but the pot is now empty and we should certainly not be wasting even more scarce resources which will give no benefit to our defence.
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 17:28
  #325 (permalink)  
 
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You don't just wake up one morning and decide to become a pilot, for most it is an investment that starts in childhood, everything possible should be done to help these lads and lasses.
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 17:49
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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You don't just wake up one morning and decide to become a pilot, for most it is an investment that starts in childhood,
No, that is a totally irrelevant argument- 'I had an ambition and government policy is stopping me achieve it', sadly I am sure there are may bright young things out in the workplace who have/are about to lose their jobs as a result of the financial crisis. As much as I respect aircrew this particular group have made no return of service, are not qualified to Wings, and still have a way to go before they are useful, ie CR. Aynayda Pizaqvick has it exactly right, it's a tough world.
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 18:28
  #327 (permalink)  
 
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Perspective

Next week, on 2 MAR 11, the Sri Lankan Air Force (SLAF) will celebrate its 60th anniversary.

An island nation, half the size of the British Isles, with no overseas commitments, it has an Air Force with 44,000 personnel - more than its mentor, the RAF.

How Rome has fallen!
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 18:33
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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You don't just wake up one morning and decide to become a pilot...
Whether 't was the marsh warblers swooping into your mother's undercroft (Capt E Blackadder), or Vampires flying past the farm opposite on final approach to RAF Merryfield (me), the ambition to become a military fighter pilot (who would possibly settle for anything less?) was probably imbued at a very early age. It took about 30 years (in my case) between knowing that I wanted to be a fighter pilot until the magical words "24 Feb 83 Phantom FGR2 Op. Status" appeared in my log book - and that was in far more benign times.

So yes, Tory Boys Call-me-Dave and Foxy have dashed the hopes of some of our finest people, although Incapability Brown and that lying $hit Blair are wholly to blame for the nation's current deficit. The best that the government can now do is to provide these poor sods, whose loyalty, flying skills and personal qualities are utterly exemplary, with some form of compensation for the situation they now find themselves in.

They weren't 'chopped' through any failure on their part!
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 18:58
  #329 (permalink)  
 
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Beagle; you are confusing a time of honour with the twenty-first century.

A friend left work a few weeks ago to attend a doctors appointment. When he returned the workplace was locked. A few (former) workmates has taken to the local pub to debrief the unforseen demise of the company. No redundancy money whatsoever, and middle aged+ workforce have little hope of re-employment. A good time to raise the retirement age.
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 19:12
  #330 (permalink)  
 
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BEagle

'The best that the government can now do is to provide these poor sods, whose loyalty, flying skills and personal qualities are utterly exemplary, with some form of compensation for the situation they now find themselves in.'
Sorry but exactly how do you know that these individuals have exemplary personal qualities - is this a new test at Cranwell I was not aware of? As aircrew I can understand and commend your wish to look after other memebers of your fraternity but you cannot expect the UK PLC or the MoD to single out one Branch for preferential treatment - exemplary personal qualities or otherwise. All individuals who find their career aspirations extinguished should be treated in the same (and hopefully) correct manner.
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Old 26th Feb 2011, 19:40
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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Whether 't was the marsh warblers swooping into your mother's undercroft (Capt E Blackadder), or Vampires flying past the farm opposite on final approach to RAF Merryfield (me), the ambition to become a military fighter pilot (who would possibly settle for anything less?) was probably imbued at a very early age.
For me it was seeing the Herc crews at a Greenham Common air show sitting atop the wings of their grey & green party machines in deck chairs that made me want to join up. And yes, I got exactly what I wanted, despite the pathetic 'wit' of many (ex) fast jet instructors during basic training who deemed me to have an attitude problem because of my chosen path in government aviation.
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 01:49
  #332 (permalink)  
 
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They weren't 'chopped' through any failure on their part!
Wrong Beagle, they were chopped because they weren't good enough for the standard that was required at the time. Whether that standard was lower last week or last decade is neither here nor there.

Don't get me wrong, as an operational front seater I feel for these guys and hope they get the best treatment possible but someone has to bring a dose of reality to some of the day dreaming that has been seen on this thread.

Stop thinking RAF Investor in People and start thinking MoD PLC.
Aynayda Pizaqvick is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2011, 08:27
  #333 (permalink)  
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Cool Fast Jets

The best of luck to all those poor ladies and gentlemen who get the bad news very shortly. I know it is easy for me to say, but don't let the b....rs get you down. Use the guts and determination you have that has got you so far to get on with what could be a better prospect for the future.

I got exactly what I wanted, despite the pathetic 'wit' of many (ex) fast jet instructors during basic training who deemed me to have an attitude problem
I had the same problem. I got my dream in the end though - a really fast shiny white jet with four engines. We frequently had to slow down on military routes as we were catching up a so called 'fast jet'
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 19:28
  #334 (permalink)  
 
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I think that we need to bear in mind that (almost) all of us who entered military aviation were aspirational, patriotic and enthusiastic. This isn't a question of Scrote and Sons, bobbin makers to the gentry, going down the tubes and leaving unemployed workers seeking new jobs. It is a question of highly motivated, able young people who have put enormous effort into their training and, most importantly, surrendered their future freedom of action and movement for a substantial chunk of their lives which they are prepared to risk on our behalf.

Those who have the prospect of a career in civil aviation should receive every assistance to convert their training to civil flying/engineering/ATCqualifications; we owe them that at the very least.

I will not hold my breath.
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 19:35
  #335 (permalink)  
 
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Having been through a somewhat similar experience myself I wish to extend my sympathies to student pilots affected by this situation. I know that it can have a great impact on your lives and feel quite brutal and despairing to begin with, but I'm sure that you will eventually recover.

It might not match the experience which some aspects of military flying offer, but I think that civilian aviation can be worthwhile for those who are interested.

Best of luck to you while working towards better days.
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 20:39
  #336 (permalink)  
 
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Just out of interest,
my idea was the result of about 10s thought, by way of a 'get the thread back on track' as I'd followed a previous poster off topic. Later on I came to think, 'you know, it wouldn't cost all that much, and the money would be reclaimed in due course, and you'd only be looking at that fraction who were reasonably on in training.'..I'm not suggesting someone fresh from IOT should be given a bucket of dosh to complete commercial training.

As it'd be a loan it's also not actually going to cost very much to do, in the medium term - it seems to work okay with students, and I'm sure the soon to be ex-RAF officers will be at least as good a risk as the average graduate in underwater basket weaving at Bolton Poly.

I never was a pilot, so no axe to grind here, I just don't see why we're so intent on always doing the decent thing for complete strangers and never for our own folk.
Dave
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 23:20
  #337 (permalink)  
 
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Could I encourage any of you ex RAF trainees to consider becoming ATCOs. As high calibre aviation enthusiasts you would be very welcome amoungst the troups (if you could first get past HR). I know it doesn't look as glamorous on our side of the radio, but its not a bad lifestyle and arguably more secure than most flight-deck jobs.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing.
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Old 1st Mar 2011, 14:30
  #338 (permalink)  
 
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Black Tuesday

Condolences to all those trainee pilots who lost their jobs today. A sad day, especially for those who already had their wings.
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Old 1st Mar 2011, 17:56
  #339 (permalink)  
 
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"This isn't a question of Scrote and Sons, bobbin makers to the gentry, going down the tubes and leaving unemployed workers seeking new jobs."

It is if you worked for Scrote & Sons

Forced unemployment is always grim - doesn't matter to whom it happens

Most of the ones on the RAF list will be young and well educated - they probably don't have families and mortgages
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Old 1st Mar 2011, 18:16
  #340 (permalink)  
 
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Most of the ones on the RAF list will be young and well educated - they probably don't have families and mortgages
Sorry (for the thread drift, if nothing else),
but the majority of RAF personnel being made redundant will not in fact be young RAF pilots.... I'd think a high proportion of those about to be sacrificed, thinking they were highly skilled specialists (that covers crew chiefs, Ops support, rear and front end crew) who were highly valued by the RAF, have significant financial commitments....and are now finding out that their "career", which appeared to be rock solid this time last year, actually has about 3 months to run.

There are people - and I'm not talking aircrew here, although my description probably describes a few - who have achieved a significant skill level, substantial rank, and who have all sorts to pay off, from car loans to mortgages to making sure the kidds finish Uni.... and they're going to get 3 months pay and the sort of kiss off that Michael Corleone gave Fredo.

This isn't about your local Halford's closing down, it's the Royal Air Force - and yes we should be treating the poor sods involved as a special case. Why? Because last time I looked the employees at Waitrose didn't sign a blank cheque that included being killed to further national policy.

Sorry, but I AM getting annoyed at people who insist on treating the armed forces personnel as if they're doing nothing more than that working at DVLA.

Dave
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