Too Low FlyBy-- USAF T-38s
Aviator Extraordinaire
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
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Don't get too carried away Con-the V-Force more than played their part.
Serious question as I really do not know and I had no intention of slighting the V-Force or any RAF unit. In fact, I greatly admire the RAF.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Muroc dry lake bed
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Rubber removal
Remember my entire reason for getting an account to be on here was to ask that we don't cast stones at fellow drivers.
All respect to those that served and lost in the Falklands. Just wanted to make the point that every cockpit is a glass house, so keep your stones in your shorts where they belong. I don't think the Overlord, Market Garden, or Vittles fellas would take kindly to the rubber remarks...
Phil- can you suggest a good book on the Tin Triangle in combat? I've got an Amazon account and a credit card!
All respect to those that served and lost in the Falklands. Just wanted to make the point that every cockpit is a glass house, so keep your stones in your shorts where they belong. I don't think the Overlord, Market Garden, or Vittles fellas would take kindly to the rubber remarks...
Phil- can you suggest a good book on the Tin Triangle in combat? I've got an Amazon account and a credit card!
Drew .No I can't suggest any books about the Vulcan in combat.Apart from THE book you've read
But the Vulcan was a deterrent,a capability and a symbol which served the UK well in the immediate post war decades and later.As were her crews.As such they served Western Europe and rest of the world admirably.
Granted they may have fared badly carpet bombing Vietnam.But that was never the plan.
And before I forget I'm aware of and acknowledge the enormous gratitude we owe all UK based US WW2 airmen.
But the Vulcan was a deterrent,a capability and a symbol which served the UK well in the immediate post war decades and later.As were her crews.As such they served Western Europe and rest of the world admirably.
Granted they may have fared badly carpet bombing Vietnam.But that was never the plan.
And before I forget I'm aware of and acknowledge the enormous gratitude we owe all UK based US WW2 airmen.
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Respect Phil
Well played, sir. And I'd like to reciprocate the thanks- UK has been there with us through this decade of struggles... a time when there have been fewer and fewer friends.
I will never forget the time I got to see changing of the guards at Buckingham: inspiring!
I will never forget the time I got to see changing of the guards at Buckingham: inspiring!
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A good flypast and enormously enjoyed by the crowd. To the audience it brings respect and pride of those serving in the military. In a time when the majority of ordinary people in the western world are peeved off with the economy, lack of jobs, inflation, the banks, crime, bla bla, an event such as that flypast brings them hope and a belief that not all in the world has turned to ratpoo!
Was it dangerous? No way. For those guys, it was no more dangerous than you or I driving down the M4 on a quiet Sunday morning at 60 mph.
Unfortunately the perception of any air display is that if it is loud, low and fast and looks dangerous, then it must be dangerous. When incidents such as this display occur and they are caught on camera, the press over react and sensationalise it, leadership is forced to over react and the rules become more and more stringent and tightly enforced. And sadly people loose there careers because they try to do something special for an audience that wants and craves it.
Yes there is a risk that something could go wrong and I am fully aware of the occasions when it has gone wrong. But hey! I am a great believer in the old “I could step outside my house and get run over by a bus” mentality.
I also think that some of those here that have condemned the incident (using the rulebook as the excuse) are just jealous that they have never had the opportunity to have done it themselves.
Although not a pilot, having spent 30 years in, I have had the honour and privilege of seeing some truly amazing flypasts and that includes Tonkas, Tombs, Vulcans, Jags, Harriers and even a Shack & VC10. Even though I did not have a camera with me in the majority of occasions, I remember them like yesterday. The biggest kick I get these days is stood on the farmers’ field overlooking the RIAT, watching F16s, Tonkas, Typhoons, etc, etc, screaming 50 foot above my motorhome in full burner. Can’t beat it
With respect to the risk I mentioned earlier, I stand more chance of being killed, driving home on the Monday morning after RIAT, by one of the thousands of lunatics we have on the roads.
Finally:
Are you referring to the 747 South African World Cup incident or is there something I have missed.
After the very sad news about the Red Arrows today, I considered removing this post. However, having thought about it long and hard, I believe that the pilots I knew when I was on Sqns, would want the show to go on.
My thoughts go to the family and friends of the pilot. A huge loss and you died doing what you love to do.
Was it dangerous? No way. For those guys, it was no more dangerous than you or I driving down the M4 on a quiet Sunday morning at 60 mph.
Unfortunately the perception of any air display is that if it is loud, low and fast and looks dangerous, then it must be dangerous. When incidents such as this display occur and they are caught on camera, the press over react and sensationalise it, leadership is forced to over react and the rules become more and more stringent and tightly enforced. And sadly people loose there careers because they try to do something special for an audience that wants and craves it.
Yes there is a risk that something could go wrong and I am fully aware of the occasions when it has gone wrong. But hey! I am a great believer in the old “I could step outside my house and get run over by a bus” mentality.
I also think that some of those here that have condemned the incident (using the rulebook as the excuse) are just jealous that they have never had the opportunity to have done it themselves.
Although not a pilot, having spent 30 years in, I have had the honour and privilege of seeing some truly amazing flypasts and that includes Tonkas, Tombs, Vulcans, Jags, Harriers and even a Shack & VC10. Even though I did not have a camera with me in the majority of occasions, I remember them like yesterday. The biggest kick I get these days is stood on the farmers’ field overlooking the RIAT, watching F16s, Tonkas, Typhoons, etc, etc, screaming 50 foot above my motorhome in full burner. Can’t beat it
With respect to the risk I mentioned earlier, I stand more chance of being killed, driving home on the Monday morning after RIAT, by one of the thousands of lunatics we have on the roads.Finally:
It did not look dangerous to me and nowhere near as exciting as the 747 over the cricket ground!! And they had passengers on board
After the very sad news about the Red Arrows today, I considered removing this post. However, having thought about it long and hard, I believe that the pilots I knew when I was on Sqns, would want the show to go on.
My thoughts go to the family and friends of the pilot. A huge loss and you died doing what you love to do.
Last edited by SRENNAPS; 20th Aug 2011 at 18:27.
Did any of the V-Force serve in combat in Viet Nam, or any other combat area for that matter?
After that I would suggest that one of the reasons that, Op Black Buck aside, the V-Force never saw "active" service in the sense of actually going and dropping bombs on targets was that for the period they were operational (late 1950's to 1980s) the governments of this country were able to operate a defence policy which was primarily concerned with the security of the UK, and not getting involved in useless unwinnable wars around the globe. Certainly there were trouble spots in the former Empire, but these were primarily "policing" actions, with air warfare being restricted to a tactical rather than strategic nature (air attacks on terrorist positions in Malaya, Aden etc). Had Blair been PM in the 1960s on the other hand who knows how many bombing missions we'd have seen the three Vs flying on?
Having played a small role in the V Force I am delighted that all my flights were "practices" - otherwise it's highly likely that none of us would be around to have this discussion.
By the way, Con, never mind the Vulcan with its lightweight conventional bombload, this would have been the one for the job
Google Images
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 20th Aug 2011 at 15:14.
