AOC 1 Gp breaks ranks

[Spot 4]

At the risk of a little thread drift, could one of the Harrier mates explain why if a Harriers donk stopped they could not exchange speed for height whilst making with gear and flaps for a subsequent landing on the nearest available strip of tarmac? Assuming that the latest models retained the RAT that the earlier GR3 had.

[NigelOnDraft]

Assuming that the latest models retained the RAT that the earlier GR3 had

Well, becomes fairly academic since the RAT was not fitted...

if a Harriers donk stopped they could not exchange speed for height whilst making with gear and flaps for a subsequent landing on the nearest available strip of tarmac?

Leaving aside the lack of RAT issue, what real purpose would there be in this technique? From 420K @ LL you might get 3000-4000' (?) zoom climb to a suitable glide speed (250K?). Since High Key would be ~12,000', and Low Key maybe 6000', you'd be pretty lucky to have an airfield you could make.

In the unlikely event there was such an airfield, and you managed to get the aircraft in 1 piece on the tarmac, and it was 10,000' long+, you would still almost certainly be looking at pulling the handle at 1000' to go Even if it had a barrier (IIRC you did not stay in for a barrier entry).

NoD

[just another jocky]

"Abort Takeoff" and Harrier are fairly unassociated planning terms

Of course I realise that losing the donk in a Harrier is fairly terminal..., any other reasons to abort?

So what length strip was available in KAF at the start then?

[NigelOnDraft]

any other reasons to abort?

Not really

Clearly any major systems failure, or general Capt's discretion. But without a "V1" type speed, a decision to abort will always likely be risky. IIRC the ACM advice if aircraft failed to get airborne was wait 10K more and try again... "Go minded" sums it up

NoD

[Justanopinion]

siteresources.worldbank.org/.../Resources/579597.../5Annex.pdf

2003 KANDAHAR RW 05/23 LENGTH 3200' WIDTH 45 TAXYWAY 23M WIDE

Although roughly 2/3 was available (sometimes 1/2) due WIP. Quick google search will reveal all the info requested.

[ICBM]

any other reasons to abort?

Usual 'top-line red' type stuff such as Gen Fail with low cloud, Hyd, Fire etc, with the caveat that you assessed speed/rwy dist available to stop. On strips (c.800-1200') with little to no overrun it was very much a 'go mentality' after full power was confirmed. Much was scenario dependent.

So what length strip was available in KAF at the start then?

In many instances there was 3000' available and width was down to 45' at times. In all events the jet was able to take off and land with a full loadout to carry out tasking, day and night. Sounds cliche I know, but it really was the only platform airborne out of KAF when heavies (IL-76) trashed the tarmac runway on hot days. Once an A-10 was stuck there for a week and a half waiting for enough take off distance to get repaired.

[Justanopinion]

And of that 3000 ' available the duty pilot still had to go out before each take off and landing to pick up the largest chunks of concrete that were scattered around along with an instant tarmac machine which would fill in the biggest holes!! Even on the hottest days the harrier could still get back to around 80-90 kts to land.

[Admin_Guru]

Besides being the best example of thread drift yet witnessed on PPRuNe by the Tonka toy v Puffa jet chaps, there is a fair degree of importance if the chaps at the top of the food chain are not enjoying the festive season collectively. Perhaps Baggers is portraying himself as 'Bader' in this particular pantomime. Prince Charming (aka Dalton) struck me as a 'people person' when I met him a year or two ago, but such a person is out of his depth when mandated by Govt to police brutal cuts in manpower, and the 'distancing from Baggers' suggests political correctness equal to walking down Downing Street with his tail firmly tucked under.

Now not seen on Sky News nor indeed any western media coverage is the civil unrest in Russia that is perceived by some as potential for an uprising or indeed civil war. The people v the mafia (or at least organised crime that is seen to have govt backing) & corrupt govt appears to be the main ingrediants. I mention this because UK Mil Plc appear to have become so Afghan centric that the back door is left wide open and an unstable country such as Russia could rock the world stage to such a degree as to make 9/11 appear insignificant. With this in mind, I would suggest a leader devoid of 'blinkers' could be exactly what the country (Nevermind the individual service) needs at this time.

Is a posting to the PJHQ perceived as a side-step or a career step? Who is being groomed to replace AOC 1 Grp; a Rotweiler or a Poodle? I would like to say "Happy New Year" but I fear it will be same sh17 differant day, and with less money in my pocket for the bar.

[Mad_Mark]

At the risk of a little thread drift...

A bit late to worry about thread drift on this thread that was originally discussing AOC 1 Gp speaking out against the cuts, it has already drifted into a GR9 v GR4 fight.

MadMark!!!

[Admin_Guru]

Yes it is a pity that the 'MODS' didnt move the irrelevent bun-fight into a new thread in order that the initial point be maintained. Any HQ that is not cohesive is relevent to almost all ppruners on the mil page as there could be a concentina effect on other matters not necessarily RAF.