Training Pipeline Clogged
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Although anyone with any sense knows that you need to keep the training flow going through the ages, i'm led to believe that there's some nebby law that won't let you force redundancy on folk at one end whilst you're still recruiting others to 'replace' them.
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There is civil employment Law that states that you cannot make someone redundant and recruit for the same post. ie Every man lost 'should' be a PIC/PID removed from circulation. However there is no way that this will be adhered to by the military who will claim an exemption from civil law.
The same laws apply to people on sick leave being replaced in post and the military do tend to dick-dance around these cases, so there may be some hope. Of course cases such as the pregnant WRAF compensation saga couldnt possibly happen again could it?
The get-out clause for students being 'chopped' will be that standards have not been achieved, even when that line in the sand changed during a course. The boundaries of acceptable, if not legal behavour will be explored by Govt in the coming months.
The same laws apply to people on sick leave being replaced in post and the military do tend to dick-dance around these cases, so there may be some hope. Of course cases such as the pregnant WRAF compensation saga couldnt possibly happen again could it?
The get-out clause for students being 'chopped' will be that standards have not been achieved, even when that line in the sand changed during a course. The boundaries of acceptable, if not legal behavour will be explored by Govt in the coming months.
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For those that need the latest info on FJ, RW and ME training, read this 'unclassified' newsletter just released from D of FT, 22GP.
FLYING TRAINING PIPELINE
The impact of the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) on FT has been significant. This newsletter is intended to communicate the current pressures and widespread implications of re-organising the FT pipeline in line with reduced requirements.
CURRENT SITUATION
The decision to cancel the Nimrod MRA4, and the future reduction in Tornado GR4 Force, mean that there is no longer a requirement to train Weapon Systems Officers (WSO) and Weapon Systems Operators (WSOp) Sensor. Similarly there is a need to reduce the number of student pilots required in the pilot trg pipeline due to the retirement of the Harrier and the reduction in the Tornado GR4 Force. This will necessitate a rebalancing of the FT system to meet this new requirement.
FJ WSO TRAINING AND DOMINIE OUT-OF-SERVICE DATE (OSD)
The Minister for Armed Forces has agreed to the following:
1. Basic WSO trg ceases on 76(R) Sqn and the Sqn will disband.
2. Advanced WSO trg on 55(R) Sqn will cease on the 17 Jan 11. The final cse No 512 will complete FJ WSO trg.
3. The Dominie trg aircraft OSD will be 31 Jan 11.
FUTURE PILOT TRAINING
The revised fleet structures post SDSR, has resulted in a surplus of circa 200 student pilots. To re-align the trg pipelines to our future
requirement, 22 (Trg) Gp has recommended various measures to rebalance the training surplus. However, any decision must be agreed by Ministers before the methodology can be published.
IMMEDIATE MEASURES
FJ Pilots. From 4 Jan 11, all new FJ courses will be halved in size, with students not in trg placed in a hold, pending the decision on how to rebalance the pipeline.
RW Pilot. Army pilot courses will continue with no change. There will be a small reduction in RN cse sizes however, all new RAF RW courses will be halved in size with students not in trg placed in a hold, pending the decision on how to rebalance the pipeline.
ME Pilots. All new ME courses that were due to start in flying in Jan 11 have been delayed until 1 Apr 11. Students not currently in trg will be placed in a hold, pending the decision on how to rebalance the pipeline.
WSO and WSOp. The WSO students who were holding, awaiting allocation of a WSO course, have returned to OASC to be re-assessed and advised on their future career opportunities. Those WSO students that have not started the FJ Dominie phase of trg and those previously streamed ME WSO, will also return to OASC for reassessment. The remaining FJ WSOs in the trg pipeline will continue. The WSOp Sensor students have already been re-streamed WSOp Crewman (RW) and are awaiting courses.
IOT. In to trg (ITT) targets have been reduced to zero for IOT intakes post SDSR within the current FY. ITT for FY11/12 has yet to be allocated. All students who are not in training will be held, until the subsequent action is agreed.
Note. All holding students will be held without prejudice to their future.
FUTURE MEASURES
The RAF aircrew trg pipeline is in a state of flux and many decisions have yet to be made. In taking such decisions we will be attempting to balance fair outcomes for people, with the needs of the Service. It will not be easy, but I and your command chain will keep you informed as soon as firm decisions are made.
Air Cdre A Sudlow - Director of Flying Training
Sounds like the place to start your FT career is with the Army!
22 (Trg) Gp
Directorate of Flying Training
Newsletter No 1 - Jan 11
FLYING TRAINING PIPELINE
The impact of the Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) on FT has been significant. This newsletter is intended to communicate the current pressures and widespread implications of re-organising the FT pipeline in line with reduced requirements.
CURRENT SITUATION
The decision to cancel the Nimrod MRA4, and the future reduction in Tornado GR4 Force, mean that there is no longer a requirement to train Weapon Systems Officers (WSO) and Weapon Systems Operators (WSOp) Sensor. Similarly there is a need to reduce the number of student pilots required in the pilot trg pipeline due to the retirement of the Harrier and the reduction in the Tornado GR4 Force. This will necessitate a rebalancing of the FT system to meet this new requirement.
FJ WSO TRAINING AND DOMINIE OUT-OF-SERVICE DATE (OSD)
The Minister for Armed Forces has agreed to the following:
1. Basic WSO trg ceases on 76(R) Sqn and the Sqn will disband.
2. Advanced WSO trg on 55(R) Sqn will cease on the 17 Jan 11. The final cse No 512 will complete FJ WSO trg.
3. The Dominie trg aircraft OSD will be 31 Jan 11.
FUTURE PILOT TRAINING
The revised fleet structures post SDSR, has resulted in a surplus of circa 200 student pilots. To re-align the trg pipelines to our future
requirement, 22 (Trg) Gp has recommended various measures to rebalance the training surplus. However, any decision must be agreed by Ministers before the methodology can be published.
IMMEDIATE MEASURES
FJ Pilots. From 4 Jan 11, all new FJ courses will be halved in size, with students not in trg placed in a hold, pending the decision on how to rebalance the pipeline.
RW Pilot. Army pilot courses will continue with no change. There will be a small reduction in RN cse sizes however, all new RAF RW courses will be halved in size with students not in trg placed in a hold, pending the decision on how to rebalance the pipeline.
ME Pilots. All new ME courses that were due to start in flying in Jan 11 have been delayed until 1 Apr 11. Students not currently in trg will be placed in a hold, pending the decision on how to rebalance the pipeline.
WSO and WSOp. The WSO students who were holding, awaiting allocation of a WSO course, have returned to OASC to be re-assessed and advised on their future career opportunities. Those WSO students that have not started the FJ Dominie phase of trg and those previously streamed ME WSO, will also return to OASC for reassessment. The remaining FJ WSOs in the trg pipeline will continue. The WSOp Sensor students have already been re-streamed WSOp Crewman (RW) and are awaiting courses.
IOT. In to trg (ITT) targets have been reduced to zero for IOT intakes post SDSR within the current FY. ITT for FY11/12 has yet to be allocated. All students who are not in training will be held, until the subsequent action is agreed.
Note. All holding students will be held without prejudice to their future.
FUTURE MEASURES
The RAF aircrew trg pipeline is in a state of flux and many decisions have yet to be made. In taking such decisions we will be attempting to balance fair outcomes for people, with the needs of the Service. It will not be easy, but I and your command chain will keep you informed as soon as firm decisions are made.
Air Cdre A Sudlow - Director of Flying Training
Sounds like the place to start your FT career is with the Army!
As Timelord implies, that newsletter is pretty sloppily worded and is ambiguous in respect of several categories of people... which is nice given the enormous worry affaected people will be feeling.
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sloppily worded and is ambiguous
I can recall many RAF Rotary Pilot graduates being 'given' to the Army in the eighties to address a shortfall of particulary Gazelle drivers. You could be forgiven for believing that as JHC is the primary customer for DHFS RAF and Army students, and also the lions share of RN students, that the massacre of potential rotary pilots would be equi-shared between the Services. Idealistic I know, but yet another example of how ineffective the Joint of JHC really is.
PS: Wazz'n'zoom
Thanks for the post. That sort of information is exactly what this forum and indeed the redundancy matters are in need of.
Keypilot,
I think you're being a bit unfair. The Planning Round is still ongoing, options are still being run, final personnel numbers have not yet been determined. Against that backdrop, it's somewhat harsh to be expecting definitive information. Of course it's damn well going to be ambiguous!
I think it's a valiant effort by the Air Cdre to keep people in the loop as much as possible when the whole edifice is still wobbling on quicksand.
I think you're being a bit unfair. The Planning Round is still ongoing, options are still being run, final personnel numbers have not yet been determined. Against that backdrop, it's somewhat harsh to be expecting definitive information. Of course it's damn well going to be ambiguous!
I think it's a valiant effort by the Air Cdre to keep people in the loop as much as possible when the whole edifice is still wobbling on quicksand.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
If you read the OASC thread there is a clue there for all those destined to be re-boarded at OASC.
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So with all the FT courses halving in size, what's going to happen to all the surplus QFIs/QHIs no longer required for these smaller courses? No spaces on the front-line any more thanks to reductions in squadrons, ac etc.
The redundancies are going to be interesting!
The redundancies are going to be interesting!
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Hi everyone,
I'm not sure if this is of interest to anybody, but I am/was a potential Fleet Air Arm pilot candidate and I received a letter today that said:
"You will probably be aware that the RN requirement for fixed and rotary wing pilots has significantly reduced following the SDSR. Fleet Air Arm career opportunities for fixed wing and rotary wing pilots do still exist but there is currently no requirement for pilots to start officer training until 2012.
As you have indicated that you also wish to be considered for observer and ATC your application will continue to be processed. If this is no longer the case, please contact us immediately."
So no new pilots will be passing out of BRNC until 2013 at the earliest.
I'm not sure what I'll do. I only dropped two points in the RT, and I'm confident of getting an excellent mark in the FATs in early February. I want to fly, even if it means holding till 2012, but it doesn't sound like that'll be an option.
-Marc
I'm not sure if this is of interest to anybody, but I am/was a potential Fleet Air Arm pilot candidate and I received a letter today that said:
"You will probably be aware that the RN requirement for fixed and rotary wing pilots has significantly reduced following the SDSR. Fleet Air Arm career opportunities for fixed wing and rotary wing pilots do still exist but there is currently no requirement for pilots to start officer training until 2012.
As you have indicated that you also wish to be considered for observer and ATC your application will continue to be processed. If this is no longer the case, please contact us immediately."
So no new pilots will be passing out of BRNC until 2013 at the earliest.
I'm not sure what I'll do. I only dropped two points in the RT, and I'm confident of getting an excellent mark in the FATs in early February. I want to fly, even if it means holding till 2012, but it doesn't sound like that'll be an option.
-Marc
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God knows on the idea of holding until 2012/2013 or later.
After a visit by AMPBT to Linton there seemed to be no consideration of this, inspite it being what most 'baby aircrew' would see as a preferred option to a P45. It was an inspired question, asked by an individual that has the welfare of many as a major concern, that was going to be "reworded" by AMPBT to ask some SME's at HQ Air about.
However, this would appear at odds to when 76(R) got the news before xmas, they were informed that the AOC didn't want people clogging up the system by being in a hold...
After a visit by AMPBT to Linton there seemed to be no consideration of this, inspite it being what most 'baby aircrew' would see as a preferred option to a P45. It was an inspired question, asked by an individual that has the welfare of many as a major concern, that was going to be "reworded" by AMPBT to ask some SME's at HQ Air about.
However, this would appear at odds to when 76(R) got the news before xmas, they were informed that the AOC didn't want people clogging up the system by being in a hold...
Last edited by vikingdriver; 18th Jan 2011 at 19:44.
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With allowances about to be cut or reduced, people to be made redundant and pressure on all budgets, do you think the payment of the salaries for a lot of people on hold "until 2012/13 or later" really be justified??
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I was told today that if I passed the FAT for Pilot, I would be allowed to hold until there was a need for a new intake, but I wouldn't be sent to the AIB until that time. I expect a lot of potential pilots will take this option, so they will be able to be very picky. I'll make the decision after I sit the FAT.
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Well, apparently if you don't choose redundancy then there is still a 12 month notice/holding period.
Is it cheaper to retain or recruit for this period?
What is "fair" with regards to employment law?
These are the questions that no one is yet answering, and I think that until they do there will continue to be 'friction' in the flying training system, let alone its impact for MFTS...
Is it cheaper to retain or recruit for this period?
What is "fair" with regards to employment law?
These are the questions that no one is yet answering, and I think that until they do there will continue to be 'friction' in the flying training system, let alone its impact for MFTS...
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Northernskyuk,
The RN does not plan to take any pilots into BRNC until May 2012, bar a small number who already have long standing offers going in in Sept 2011. Therefore, excluding this number in Sept 2011, FAA Pilot intakes will be frozen between Sept 2010 and May 2012.
If you check out the post above from Director Flying Training, it says that RN courses will receive some cuts (though they don't seem as severe as the RAF's?).
Hope that helps,
DS24.
The RN does not plan to take any pilots into BRNC until May 2012, bar a small number who already have long standing offers going in in Sept 2011. Therefore, excluding this number in Sept 2011, FAA Pilot intakes will be frozen between Sept 2010 and May 2012.
If you check out the post above from Director Flying Training, it says that RN courses will receive some cuts (though they don't seem as severe as the RAF's?).
Hope that helps,
DS24.
Retain or recruit seems, as alluded above, to be the big question. Is it cheaper to pay someone £30k to sit on their backside for a year or 2 post linton, than recruit someone and pay the cost for that, plus IOT plus EFT? I'd imagine you wouldn't have to go far down the pipeline for the cost of getting someone to the same point again to even out the cost of paying someone even for as much as 2 years?