Training Pipeline Clogged
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Points do mean prizes and in this context.....a pilot job in the military!
Without giving away too much 'Restricted Staff' info, high overall flying point scores allied to good OQs will be the difference between a P45 and a helmet locker.
There's some clinical decisions about to be made within the FT system.
Without giving away too much 'Restricted Staff' info, high overall flying point scores allied to good OQs will be the difference between a P45 and a helmet locker.
There's some clinical decisions about to be made within the FT system.
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Had a briefing given at Haltons holding flight by the CASWO yesterday, during which myself and the 11 other potential WSOps holding there asked about cuts in our trade. He mentioned that an announcement would be made on Feb 16th ref. cuts and in what areas, with more specific numbers being released on March 1st. For myself and the lads n ladies waiting for our Apr 4th NCAITC course, this is now a hot potato- logic would suggest that rather than put 32 people through NCAITC and then pay them £27k for the 12 years they signed for- when they aren't even in that trade-, they would chop us before we got there and offer us a rebranch. So us lot fresh out of the box are certainly watching with waited breath.
That said, he did open the WSOp answer with "Well one would have thought youll all be going down the EW specialization...". Many a puzzled look was shared... we wonder if anyone truly knows what the sketch is.
As it stands, we have been told to expect sizeable holds; looking at about 6-8 months after NCAITC, then 8-12 months after 55 Sqn. This will be followed by another year before DHFS for our Rotary Crewmen course. We are then going to Chinook- almost guaranteed according to our latest trade brief.
That said, he did open the WSOp answer with "Well one would have thought youll all be going down the EW specialization...". Many a puzzled look was shared... we wonder if anyone truly knows what the sketch is.
As it stands, we have been told to expect sizeable holds; looking at about 6-8 months after NCAITC, then 8-12 months after 55 Sqn. This will be followed by another year before DHFS for our Rotary Crewmen course. We are then going to Chinook- almost guaranteed according to our latest trade brief.
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WC (unfortunate initials there)
Ah but who knows how many chinooks will there actually be? and how many ab-initio crewman will be required for that uncertain number of cabs? and are there really 60 crewman trainees in the queue ahead of you - not to mention as many sensor and FW NCA crossing over?
I believe there are vacancies for ATC(NCO) and ASOp at the moment-you should check them out even as you hold out for NCA...(which rightly should be your first choice)
CS
I believe there are vacancies for ATC(NCO) and ASOp at the moment-you should check them out even as you hold out for NCA...(which rightly should be your first choice)
CS
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CS - exactly, so much is up in the air (ironic pun completely unintentional) at the moment that we really are left with nothing but slightly educated speculation. I know that I have been thinking about contingencies in the eventuality that we are called into the office 'for a little chat'. What made me laugh at the brief was the guys and girls who had signed up for 6 years being told 'the next 5 years will be quite rocky'. Didn't instill much confidence.
There are a few ASOps going through at the moment, we have a few here waiting for the next course. The holding flights at Shawbury and Cranditz are apparently already filled to capacity, plus the percentage of current service guys from other trades going for NCA, plus the FW guys being shifted, PLUS the potential flood of Merlin rearcrew if/when it goes over to the FAA; we really dont have a scoobie what's going on down our end of the pipeline.
There are a few ASOps going through at the moment, we have a few here waiting for the next course. The holding flights at Shawbury and Cranditz are apparently already filled to capacity, plus the percentage of current service guys from other trades going for NCA, plus the FW guys being shifted, PLUS the potential flood of Merlin rearcrew if/when it goes over to the FAA; we really dont have a scoobie what's going on down our end of the pipeline.
CS
Very few crossovers from sensor or FW from what Ive heard. Air Manning do not own the course loading for DHFS, 22 Gp do. Its not quite the simple fix it appears on paper.
And just because someone is NCA doesn't mean they are ideal for Chinooks - as many have found out in the past - just as it doesnt mean NCA from the rotary world are ideal for finding submarines.
WC
No idea - but if the pipeline is full and youve nowhere to go it may come down to last in first out. I hope not, but maybe time to start thinking about back up plans.
not to mention as many sensor and FW NCA crossing over?
And just because someone is NCA doesn't mean they are ideal for Chinooks - as many have found out in the past - just as it doesnt mean NCA from the rotary world are ideal for finding submarines.
WC
No idea - but if the pipeline is full and youve nowhere to go it may come down to last in first out. I hope not, but maybe time to start thinking about back up plans.
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Yeah, last in first out does seem fair, and logical.
What we're left wondering now is if they do decide to get rid from our end of the pipeline, what sort of trades we are going to be offered; my main priority is a good career with opportunities and all that good stuff... that said, I know some people won't be the least bit happy about losing out on what is an excellent salary these days. I know some people reckon we'd be offered commissions, although I can't see that happening personally.
What we're left wondering now is if they do decide to get rid from our end of the pipeline, what sort of trades we are going to be offered; my main priority is a good career with opportunities and all that good stuff... that said, I know some people won't be the least bit happy about losing out on what is an excellent salary these days. I know some people reckon we'd be offered commissions, although I can't see that happening personally.
WC
Sorry, but to be brutally honest, what makes you think you are going to be offered anything else...?
In case you hadn't noticed, there is no trade in the RAF that is currently drastically undermanned, everywhere is shrinking!
As for commissions, once again, in what trade. There is talk of WSOs rebranching due to lack of flying jobs, let alone the 100 odd baby pilots being talked about on another thread, so they would take any available officer posts. But once again there is no great shortage of officers in ground trades, so if this does happen it will literally be a handfull.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee I'm afraid....
Sorry, but to be brutally honest, what makes you think you are going to be offered anything else...?
In case you hadn't noticed, there is no trade in the RAF that is currently drastically undermanned, everywhere is shrinking!
As for commissions, once again, in what trade. There is talk of WSOs rebranching due to lack of flying jobs, let alone the 100 odd baby pilots being talked about on another thread, so they would take any available officer posts. But once again there is no great shortage of officers in ground trades, so if this does happen it will literally be a handfull.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee I'm afraid....
On the plus side,
if you have got this far, you are obviously bright. There is a whole world out there, much of it out of recession.
And.... you can tell them to ram it when they realise theyve porked it in 12 months and call you up!
if you have got this far, you are obviously bright. There is a whole world out there, much of it out of recession.
And.... you can tell them to ram it when they realise theyve porked it in 12 months and call you up!
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Wise words MGD!
That is a lesson that could be learned by commercial aviation management also: early-retire/lay people off one week; hire them back the next, as consultants, at a multiple of their former deal when the "big picture" changes.
What are the bets that the UK forces will be short of aircrew within a year?
That is a lesson that could be learned by commercial aviation management also: early-retire/lay people off one week; hire them back the next, as consultants, at a multiple of their former deal when the "big picture" changes.
What are the bets that the UK forces will be short of aircrew within a year?
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"shortage of aircrew in a year"...probably right (if going by history) but with the GR4 force approaching the slaughter house, I dunno. Think the 22 (now 12) extra chinooks looks like actually none. Also, if Merlin goes to RN, then once again surplus aircrew scrambling for what's left. Quite surprised how 100 sqn are managing to avoid all the bizarre cuts happening around them.
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Quite surprised how 100 sqn are managing to avoid all the bizarre cuts happening around them.
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Personally the only other trade I am particularly interested in is Medic; would love to do that if NCA goes down the ****ter. Not sure how that's sizing up at the moment in terms of reduction etc?
We were thinking today that they might get rid of "excess" NCA through natural wastage, voluntary redundancies and the like, to avoid a skills gap, but having seen 100 baby pilots get axed; they were commissioned officers, and no disrespect meant at all - Im one - but at this juncture, some of us are "just" ACs, therefore easier, cheaper and quicker to chin off than someone already holding after NCAITC and beyond. I guess few of the "wiser generation" coming towards the end of their careers would take an early redundancy when they can wait a bit and get an excellent pension package from a full 22 years.
Rumour around at the moment is that they're looking at getting rid of 300 WSOps one way or another. Don't know where that came from though...
We were thinking today that they might get rid of "excess" NCA through natural wastage, voluntary redundancies and the like, to avoid a skills gap, but having seen 100 baby pilots get axed; they were commissioned officers, and no disrespect meant at all - Im one - but at this juncture, some of us are "just" ACs, therefore easier, cheaper and quicker to chin off than someone already holding after NCAITC and beyond. I guess few of the "wiser generation" coming towards the end of their careers would take an early redundancy when they can wait a bit and get an excellent pension package from a full 22 years.
Rumour around at the moment is that they're looking at getting rid of 300 WSOps one way or another. Don't know where that came from though...
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WC
Sadly that is not a rumour.
We had that straight from Manning last month. Conjecture points to only 1 person in my section looking safe at the moment, but the detailed targets wont be announced for another 2 weeks.
CS
We had that straight from Manning last month. Conjecture points to only 1 person in my section looking safe at the moment, but the detailed targets wont be announced for another 2 weeks.
CS
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Starting to do a little research into the current state of play regarding rearcrew training (no agenda...it's actually for general pprune consumption)
I stumbled over post #84 on this thread, by way of a google search and wondered if there is any kind soul who could update this information.
Specifically...
Do we do any generic WSOP sensor training these days?
What rear crew training takes place at Cranwell? (looked on the website...couldn't find FA)
Is there any aircraft for generic rear crew training of is it all role specific?
At the moment I read it thus...
WSOP (crewman & linguist) Halton & Cranwell for recruit/leadership training..then to OCU
WSOP (sensor) One assumes Sentry only? Same route as crewman/linguist, no longer any generic training at Cranwell (ie no more NAAS or AEELS)???
WSO (what used to be a nav) Cranwell then OCU???
Am I ballpark, or way off?
Many thanks in advance for your help
PS
I'm not a slacker...I did look for info on the RAF website...where I found this
Weapon Systems Operator - Aircrew jobs - RAF Careers
Produced in 2002 if I'm not mistaken...they sure do like to keep on top of things in the old recruiting empire don't they
I stumbled over post #84 on this thread, by way of a google search and wondered if there is any kind soul who could update this information.
Specifically...
Do we do any generic WSOP sensor training these days?
What rear crew training takes place at Cranwell? (looked on the website...couldn't find FA)
Is there any aircraft for generic rear crew training of is it all role specific?
At the moment I read it thus...
WSOP (crewman & linguist) Halton & Cranwell for recruit/leadership training..then to OCU
WSOP (sensor) One assumes Sentry only? Same route as crewman/linguist, no longer any generic training at Cranwell (ie no more NAAS or AEELS)???
WSO (what used to be a nav) Cranwell then OCU???
Am I ballpark, or way off?
Many thanks in advance for your help
PS
I'm not a slacker...I did look for info on the RAF website...where I found this
Weapon Systems Operator - Aircrew jobs - RAF Careers
Produced in 2002 if I'm not mistaken...they sure do like to keep on top of things in the old recruiting empire don't they
Last edited by The Old Fat One; 24th Nov 2013 at 11:50.
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WSO (what used to be a nav) Cranwell then OCU???
My automatic spell corrector suggested 'nag' instead of nav. Appropriate for one or two I knew.
Last edited by Willard Whyte; 24th Nov 2013 at 15:22.
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WSOP TRAINING NOW
TOFO,
In response to your query:
Generic WSOp training is back on at the moment, however I believe recruiting isn't.
The students going through Generic now are those who have been holding since 2010/11. They have previously done 10 weeks at Halton, and 10 weeks of NCAITC at Cranwell. Following Generic they are streamed Rotary (and join the queue for a Shawbury course) or FW (and train as loadmasters at Cranwell).
Generic students have no airborne training at all
FW students fly on the King Air.
Note: no mention of ISTAR yet - although I think in the next 2 years we will start streaming WSOp that way again - the development of the new course is in progress.
Finally WSO or NAV. Training stopped in 2011 and the last 5 courses were redunded or offered other Branches. The Nav School was disbanded and if it were to start up again, someone would have to ask me very nicely for the disks on which I archived the entire content of the Maritime and FJ NAV courses
CS
In response to your query:
Generic WSOp training is back on at the moment, however I believe recruiting isn't.
The students going through Generic now are those who have been holding since 2010/11. They have previously done 10 weeks at Halton, and 10 weeks of NCAITC at Cranwell. Following Generic they are streamed Rotary (and join the queue for a Shawbury course) or FW (and train as loadmasters at Cranwell).
Generic students have no airborne training at all
FW students fly on the King Air.
Note: no mention of ISTAR yet - although I think in the next 2 years we will start streaming WSOp that way again - the development of the new course is in progress.
Finally WSO or NAV. Training stopped in 2011 and the last 5 courses were redunded or offered other Branches. The Nav School was disbanded and if it were to start up again, someone would have to ask me very nicely for the disks on which I archived the entire content of the Maritime and FJ NAV courses
CS
Apart from all the usual jokes about navigators ('Will that be fries with that, Sir?', 'I'd sooner have the fuel', 'TACAN doesn't talk' etc. etc.), what will happen to the expert levels of navigation theoretical knowledge which the RAF used to have amongst its specialist navigators? Or has it already atrophied?? Another incapability from the capability 'holiday'?
Not long ago, I tried to ask a technical question about the azimuth reference used by A/A TACAN in INV BCN mode for the north reference burst element of the bearing signal. No-one knew anyone who might know - whereas others either gave a guppy fish at feeding time response or just went through the same Googling process which I'd already tried.
(The reason I asked, incidentally, is that if a tanker's north reference switch is selected to True, will the transmitted INV BCN signal then be referenced to True - or will it remain in 'local' Mag. It makes a significant difference in the Canadian Arctic!")
Maybe I'll have to ask at the local McDonald's?
Not long ago, I tried to ask a technical question about the azimuth reference used by A/A TACAN in INV BCN mode for the north reference burst element of the bearing signal. No-one knew anyone who might know - whereas others either gave a guppy fish at feeding time response or just went through the same Googling process which I'd already tried.
(The reason I asked, incidentally, is that if a tanker's north reference switch is selected to True, will the transmitted INV BCN signal then be referenced to True - or will it remain in 'local' Mag. It makes a significant difference in the Canadian Arctic!")
Maybe I'll have to ask at the local McDonald's?
