25%+ cut in allowances!
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Wrathmonk
I regret that you do need to get to specsavers Sir!
I have edited that post but you have my word that it was to correct two spelling mistakes only. No worries about the age thing, I think you are probably correct anyway.
The Nip
I am sure that they were all 'good old boys' during their times as JOs and probable as Sqn Ldrs and Wg Cdrs, but countless people on here will vouch, that many people change markedly when they begin to climb that ladder towards the top, and by the time they are approaching 1* level, they become almost unrecognisable to many of us, and the 'good old boy' has been replaced by someone quite different!
Should the head of the RAF be a pilot?? I am not sure anymore. I once would have said that it was an absolute necessity, but I'm just not sure. It saddens me to see so many VSOs unable or unwilling to make the point on behalf of the junior element of the services. I would have loved to have seen a 3* or 4* have the ba11s to stand up and tell the public that the services are at breaking point, but what do we hear??
.....................the sound of silence!! - says it all I suppose.
I'm not going to rant on about VSOs. My views on them are well documented and as I have said, I have taken quite a bit of stick for it. But I reiterate that unless some VSOs are prepared to stand up and fight, then it is a lost cause; and if that means that people call it a day, then I doubt if there will be much sleep lost amongst those responsible.
I regret that you do need to get to specsavers Sir!
I have edited that post but you have my word that it was to correct two spelling mistakes only. No worries about the age thing, I think you are probably correct anyway.
The Nip
I am sure that they were all 'good old boys' during their times as JOs and probable as Sqn Ldrs and Wg Cdrs, but countless people on here will vouch, that many people change markedly when they begin to climb that ladder towards the top, and by the time they are approaching 1* level, they become almost unrecognisable to many of us, and the 'good old boy' has been replaced by someone quite different!
Should the head of the RAF be a pilot?? I am not sure anymore. I once would have said that it was an absolute necessity, but I'm just not sure. It saddens me to see so many VSOs unable or unwilling to make the point on behalf of the junior element of the services. I would have loved to have seen a 3* or 4* have the ba11s to stand up and tell the public that the services are at breaking point, but what do we hear??
.....................the sound of silence!! - says it all I suppose.
I'm not going to rant on about VSOs. My views on them are well documented and as I have said, I have taken quite a bit of stick for it. But I reiterate that unless some VSOs are prepared to stand up and fight, then it is a lost cause; and if that means that people call it a day, then I doubt if there will be much sleep lost amongst those responsible.
LOA
Intersting point about LOA - but as it has been cut by 31.8% since 1 Dec, there's not much left to target. But I agree with the sentiment about the old and bold who have hung on in Germany. I know one Sqn Ldr who's been here 15 years!
Why the rank differential? I don't know what the JSP says but twice as SBO on recent postings I have had to dig deep to help fund 'British' events, especially since RAA is a thing of the past.
Tax free fuel? That's because of the SOFA and why, inter alia, we don't pay local taxes. The system is funded by a levy on the sales of coupons. However much of BFG should be got rid of asap - the rules fail to acknowledge EU common borders, for example.
Why the rank differential? I don't know what the JSP says but twice as SBO on recent postings I have had to dig deep to help fund 'British' events, especially since RAA is a thing of the past.
Tax free fuel? That's because of the SOFA and why, inter alia, we don't pay local taxes. The system is funded by a levy on the sales of coupons. However much of BFG should be got rid of asap - the rules fail to acknowledge EU common borders, for example.
If cuts are deemed necessary then I hope it works both ways.
Are the Junior Rates going to get reimbursed for all the meals they pay for whilst at home over the weekend.
If so, will this be back dated.
Are the Junior Rates going to get reimbursed for all the meals they pay for whilst at home over the weekend.
If so, will this be back dated.
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If cuts are deemed necessary then I hope it works both ways.
Are the Junior Rates going to get reimbursed for all the meals they pay for whilst at home over the weekend.
If so, will this be back dated.
Are the Junior Rates going to get reimbursed for all the meals they pay for whilst at home over the weekend.
If so, will this be back dated.
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MATELO
RAF perosnnel on non-PAYD (CR) stations can now. They just submit a leave pass for the weekend (2 non-working days so not off ALA) on JPA and the food charges are stopped.
RAF perosnnel on non-PAYD (CR) stations can now. They just submit a leave pass for the weekend (2 non-working days so not off ALA) on JPA and the food charges are stopped.
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Interesting to see this thread degenerate into a black hole.
So no one commented on the fact that just as our Prime Minister boarded a plane to praise our troops in Afghanistan that he elected to postpone the announcement of further financial cuts to military personnel until the New Year.
Was it too unpalatable for him or was there a sense of impending morale crumble within the very heart of Her Majesty's Armed Forces?
Forget the salami slicing of the big projects, I think that we should all look at JPA and start to add up all of the small little cuts, restrictions, rule changes and even some of the big cuts mooted out there (flying pay, CEA, HTD etc) - not forgetting the proposed pension changes.
All being slowly released, drip fed firstly in news rooms and then into admin offices around the country.
Mark my words, the subsequent slow exodus over the next few years (probably of the best quality personnel) will take a very long time to replace.
Good job that once we have withdrawn from Afghan that the Prime Minister will not have to commit any of HM Forces, as the world is so stable and anyway we will be adopting an isolationist policy by then - I certainly would not want the risk that he is about to own in both equipment cuts and now with the impending slow drip feed of allowance cuts.
These allowances ultimately add to the quality (and at times the quantity in key trades - aircrew, EOD, submariners, etc) of military personnel required for defence of this country with a hidden ability that H M Treasury and the Private Sector cannot even dream of adding to an excel spreadsheet or attempt to financially quantify - namely moral component and loyal military ethos.
When the military loyalty ethos is lost, I believe so does the good will that has historically resulted in a very flexible workforce that has been prepared (without question) to make the ultimate sacrifice for this country if required.
So no one commented on the fact that just as our Prime Minister boarded a plane to praise our troops in Afghanistan that he elected to postpone the announcement of further financial cuts to military personnel until the New Year.
Was it too unpalatable for him or was there a sense of impending morale crumble within the very heart of Her Majesty's Armed Forces?
Forget the salami slicing of the big projects, I think that we should all look at JPA and start to add up all of the small little cuts, restrictions, rule changes and even some of the big cuts mooted out there (flying pay, CEA, HTD etc) - not forgetting the proposed pension changes.
All being slowly released, drip fed firstly in news rooms and then into admin offices around the country.
Mark my words, the subsequent slow exodus over the next few years (probably of the best quality personnel) will take a very long time to replace.
Good job that once we have withdrawn from Afghan that the Prime Minister will not have to commit any of HM Forces, as the world is so stable and anyway we will be adopting an isolationist policy by then - I certainly would not want the risk that he is about to own in both equipment cuts and now with the impending slow drip feed of allowance cuts.
These allowances ultimately add to the quality (and at times the quantity in key trades - aircrew, EOD, submariners, etc) of military personnel required for defence of this country with a hidden ability that H M Treasury and the Private Sector cannot even dream of adding to an excel spreadsheet or attempt to financially quantify - namely moral component and loyal military ethos.
When the military loyalty ethos is lost, I believe so does the good will that has historically resulted in a very flexible workforce that has been prepared (without question) to make the ultimate sacrifice for this country if required.
Given the relative haste with which the SDR was rushed through, perhaps the reason for the delay in announcing changes to the allowances package isn't due to some sort of conspiracy - but rather simply because the allowances review hasn't been finished yet?
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25% cuts? - Well I am not surprised, leak some of the worst bits then that will soften the blow. That seems to be the politicians method these days. For me I wish they would publish the redundancy terms / numbers and all the allowance cuts so we can all get back to work and stop faffing!
Regarding LOA I agree it needs an overhaul, someone commisioned from the ranks for instance (say a Flt Sgt) is now on less LOA than before. His experience level and family requirements / costs are not less; does not make sence.
Oh and by the way they are not 'sunshine tours' everyone can apply for them if they have the required skills / experience.
Some of them also involve deploying to sandy places more frequently than the being back in the UK.
Regarding LOA I agree it needs an overhaul, someone commisioned from the ranks for instance (say a Flt Sgt) is now on less LOA than before. His experience level and family requirements / costs are not less; does not make sence.
Oh and by the way they are not 'sunshine tours' everyone can apply for them if they have the required skills / experience.
Some of them also involve deploying to sandy places more frequently than the being back in the UK.
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Winco:
This utter nonesence (sic) about 'non aircrew' filling a 'flying related' post has done the flying community no favours at all. I know of FCs and even ATs who have kept their flying pay simply because someone has deemed that their 'new' posting is flying related. What a farce! I have heard and read the arguments that 'they may be required to rejoin the E-3 fleet therefore....' many times, and it is frankly a disgrace! There have been JO FCs (and a few senior ones also!) who are back in the ground environment, receiving more flying pay than front line aircrew on Op. The same goes for some ATs who have managed to cling onto their FP, and whatever your beliefs, that cannot be right.
I agree, but you are mistaken. There are no ex-AWACS FC personnel in the Grd Environment receiving Fg Pay. 'Flying related' posts are as rare as rocking horse poo, are all at Waddington in either the AWC or 56 Sqn and are currently being re-examined. If you know any different please let me know and I'll get onto my Desk Officer straight away and get my name down for one of these wonderful (if imaginary) posts. Now, if you took fg pay away from everyone in a ground tour, that would save quite a lot of money.
On a different note, and not to defend MPs as they are actually mostly undefendable, but there are only 650 of them claiming allowances, not over 100,000. Take a £ from each of them and you save £650, take a £ from each member of the Military and you save £100,000+. Even a numpty beancounter can see where the savings can be made most easily.
This utter nonesence (sic) about 'non aircrew' filling a 'flying related' post has done the flying community no favours at all. I know of FCs and even ATs who have kept their flying pay simply because someone has deemed that their 'new' posting is flying related. What a farce! I have heard and read the arguments that 'they may be required to rejoin the E-3 fleet therefore....' many times, and it is frankly a disgrace! There have been JO FCs (and a few senior ones also!) who are back in the ground environment, receiving more flying pay than front line aircrew on Op. The same goes for some ATs who have managed to cling onto their FP, and whatever your beliefs, that cannot be right.
I agree, but you are mistaken. There are no ex-AWACS FC personnel in the Grd Environment receiving Fg Pay. 'Flying related' posts are as rare as rocking horse poo, are all at Waddington in either the AWC or 56 Sqn and are currently being re-examined. If you know any different please let me know and I'll get onto my Desk Officer straight away and get my name down for one of these wonderful (if imaginary) posts. Now, if you took fg pay away from everyone in a ground tour, that would save quite a lot of money.
On a different note, and not to defend MPs as they are actually mostly undefendable, but there are only 650 of them claiming allowances, not over 100,000. Take a £ from each of them and you save £650, take a £ from each member of the Military and you save £100,000+. Even a numpty beancounter can see where the savings can be made most easily.
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On a different note, and not to defend MPs as they are actually mostly undefendable, but there are only 650 of them claiming allowances, not over 100,000. Take a £ from each of them and you save £650, take a £ from each member of the Military and you save £100,000+. Even a numpty beancounter can see where the savings can be made most easily.
Last edited by Willard Whyte; 14th Dec 2010 at 13:24.
Err, has anyone seen theis 'personal contribution for School Children' Visits' on their latest payslip? In my case (we live in a remote location abroad) it costs us GBP 1 per day. Not much, it seems, but that would pay for 3 return flights on a budget airline, if booked well in advance.
What the Lord giveth...
What the Lord giveth...
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Grumps
I can't comment on who is receiveing what now as it is several years since I left, but I can assure you that it was hugely common practice for FCs to 'find' themselves a posting that had became a 'flying related' post.
There were many FCs that kept their FP under that scheme and indeed, even the ATs did the same. It was ridiculous. We had SNCO FCs, Officer FCs and SNCO ATs all receiving FP after they had left the fleet and returned to their main stream duties back on ground tours. If that no longer exists then I'm pleased. At one stage, we had a SNCO AT, on a ground tour, receiving more FP than a front line AEOp. Disgraceful.
What happens today I can't comment on, but 6 - 8 years ago it was more than common.
As for the idea that anyone NOT in a flying tour should lose their FP, I can't agree entirely. Lets take the case of those ex Nimrod Crews who, through no fault of their own find they have no aircraft to fly. Do you think we should kick them in the nuts even more by enforcing a pay cut on them also? What about the guy who, because of his aviating skills/knowledge has been earmarked for a ground tour somewhere for the benifit of the service. Is it fair to give him a pay cut too?? I don't think so. If you are in a ground tour and refuse to go back to flying then fine, take the FP away then, but not when the enforced grounding is for service reasons and is not the choice or the preference of the individual concerned.
I can't comment on who is receiveing what now as it is several years since I left, but I can assure you that it was hugely common practice for FCs to 'find' themselves a posting that had became a 'flying related' post.
There were many FCs that kept their FP under that scheme and indeed, even the ATs did the same. It was ridiculous. We had SNCO FCs, Officer FCs and SNCO ATs all receiving FP after they had left the fleet and returned to their main stream duties back on ground tours. If that no longer exists then I'm pleased. At one stage, we had a SNCO AT, on a ground tour, receiving more FP than a front line AEOp. Disgraceful.
What happens today I can't comment on, but 6 - 8 years ago it was more than common.
As for the idea that anyone NOT in a flying tour should lose their FP, I can't agree entirely. Lets take the case of those ex Nimrod Crews who, through no fault of their own find they have no aircraft to fly. Do you think we should kick them in the nuts even more by enforcing a pay cut on them also? What about the guy who, because of his aviating skills/knowledge has been earmarked for a ground tour somewhere for the benifit of the service. Is it fair to give him a pay cut too?? I don't think so. If you are in a ground tour and refuse to go back to flying then fine, take the FP away then, but not when the enforced grounding is for service reasons and is not the choice or the preference of the individual concerned.
Winco,
What was common practice in Branches and Trades 6 – 8 years ago is largely irrelevant, given the enormous changes that have taken place against unparallel op tempo. Winco, I suggest that you limit such mendacious comments to what is current. I wouldn’t comment about what is going on in the ‘Stan, even though I was there last year. Things change so very, very quickly.
What was common practice in Branches and Trades 6 – 8 years ago is largely irrelevant, given the enormous changes that have taken place against unparallel op tempo. Winco, I suggest that you limit such mendacious comments to what is current. I wouldn’t comment about what is going on in the ‘Stan, even though I was there last year. Things change so very, very quickly.
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Winco,
Things have indeed changed, just about when I first left the fleet in fact (typical), and there are moves afoot to take FP away from all FCs who do not maintain currency (as it should be). We knew the rules when we went to the AWACS so cannot complain about them being enforced when we leave. I was playing devil's advocate with the 'everyone in a grd tour' comment, and I understand that for one tour followed by a return to fg that makes sense. But there are quite a few people around with the correct brevets who have not flown for years, are no longer current and never will be again, but still receive FP or are Spec Aircrew/PA, which seems strange to the majority of the (non-aircrew) RAF.
WW,
Couldn't agree more, but someone has to run the Country (no matter how badly) and they will still need paying.
Things have indeed changed, just about when I first left the fleet in fact (typical), and there are moves afoot to take FP away from all FCs who do not maintain currency (as it should be). We knew the rules when we went to the AWACS so cannot complain about them being enforced when we leave. I was playing devil's advocate with the 'everyone in a grd tour' comment, and I understand that for one tour followed by a return to fg that makes sense. But there are quite a few people around with the correct brevets who have not flown for years, are no longer current and never will be again, but still receive FP or are Spec Aircrew/PA, which seems strange to the majority of the (non-aircrew) RAF.
WW,
Couldn't agree more, but someone has to run the Country (no matter how badly) and they will still need paying.
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Which ever way you look at these cuts they will only really affect the average soldier, sailor and airman who is digging out blind to keep the op tempo while trying to save a marriage, pay a mortgage and give his or her kids the best schooling.
Bloated senior officers who don't really need all the allowances package couldn't give two hoots for the front-line troops.
Perhaps those policy makers should go and do 4 months in Helmland in a PB/CH47/C130.
Or maybe all those 1 Star officers could give up their chefs, gardeners and other staff.
Bloated senior officers who don't really need all the allowances package couldn't give two hoots for the front-line troops.
Perhaps those policy makers should go and do 4 months in Helmland in a PB/CH47/C130.
Or maybe all those 1 Star officers could give up their chefs, gardeners and other staff.