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Lossie protest

Old 21st Nov 2010, 20:35
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Easy,

Spot on - great shame to see Kinloss and its facilities go, but it was discounted early on as a potential JSF base so the chances of a reprieve are minimal.

why Southern QRA isn't closer to London
Ooh, now there's a can of worms bulging at the seams! Sea Harriers at London City, anyone?
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Old 21st Nov 2010, 21:05
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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"Sea Harriers at London City, anyone?"

don't imagine the hush kit would cost much..........
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Old 21st Nov 2010, 21:56
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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"Other arguments such as the state of current infrastructure at Leuchars seem to be also completely spurious and very short-sighted - if you are buying a house, do you buy a nice property in completely the wrong location for your needs, or do you invest in property for the long-term, in the right place? Location, location, location."

If you already own two houses and you find yourself only able to afford to run one of them then you keep the one that will best meet your future needs at the most reasonable cost, and preferably the one where the roof doesn't leak, the heating and water work, and there are enough bedrooms.

It would be difficult for the Government to ignore the future Leuchars infrastructure bill given that SDSR was predicated on saving money. And retaining Lossiemouth would also have minimal impact on Service families given that Typhoon is only in its infancy at Leuchars - with less than one Sqn's worth of aircraft currently in place. Hardly a strategic uplift if Leuchars was to go. You can easily run Northern Quick Reaction Alert from Lossiemouth - it was done effectively during the Leuchars runway closure for 3 months earlier this year.

There are some interesting views embedded within the RAF Leuchars thread as well.
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Old 21st Nov 2010, 21:59
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Spot the person who's never been to Lossie..
Heh, heh, heh.
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 00:17
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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"If you already own two houses and you find yourself only able to afford to run one of them then you keep the one that will best meet your future needs at the most reasonable cost, and preferably the one where the roof doesn't leak, the heating and water work, and there are enough bedrooms."

If you are making a basing decision based entirely on cost, then you aren't being especially strategic; tactically short-sighted one might argue given the costs of addressing any shortfalls are dwarfed by operating and relocation costs that would otherwise be incurred. Not least the investment that will have been made to get this far.
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 01:04
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Lossie will survive , even most hardened pilots agree the sensible option is Lossie
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 08:27
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It doesn't matter what anybody thinks, unless they are MPs or similar! It is a politico/financial decision.
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 08:43
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Surely both Leuchars and Lossie should be safe? I always understood that the plan a couple of years before SDSR was to run 6 operational airfields:

Typhoon: Leuchars/Coningsby
Dave: Marham/Lossie
ISTAR (inc MPA): Waddington
Transport: Brize

Even with MPA now gone, the airbase list holds good - I see no reason for change. The rest is just rumour for rumour's sake.
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 10:47
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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the airbase list holds good
Are you sure? Even with the reduced buy of JSF?

According to the press, some 40M has already been invested in getting Leuchars to where it is now
Even if the press are right, 40 mil is peanuts compared to how much money is being spent/wasted on other stuff. Lossie had a new runway recently (2005?) so if Lossie closes, some of the money spent there would be wasted (new WO/Sgts Mess, new Med Centre etc).

I'm sure the weather factors alone would prove limiting with such an extended logistics chain given that Typhoon has a quite different Engineering support arrangement than Tornado
I'm not sure I follow - the weather in Moray is usually good (which is why the two airfields have survived for so long - no longer).

And from the point of view of supply chain, both Lossie and Leuchars are sufficiently far away from Coningsby/civilisation that there's not much to pick between them!
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 13:08
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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And from the point of view of supply chain, both Lossie and Leuchars are sufficiently far away from Coningsby/civilisation that there's not much to pick between them!
I'd actually put both Leuchars and Lossie far closer to CIVILISATION than CONZ
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 13:19
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I can see, and agree with this logic.

BBC News - Moray RAF bases campaign 'having an impact'

Mr Robertson told BBC Scotland: "I suspect that there's a growing view in Whitehall that the closure of two bases in Moray is economically catastrophic.
But does this seeming 'about face', makes you wonder just how robust the decision was in the first place, and if it does get reversed, do not Liam Fox's assertions that the decisions were being based on operational merits alone, ring a little hollow?
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 14:22
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Al

There is no decision to be reversed regarding Lossiemouth! All that has been formally announced (decided?) is that Kinloss is NO LONGER REQUIRED as an RAF base, and that 2 other bases will go. Which two RAF bases is likely to be announced in the spring....


Therefore Lossiemouth, Leuchars, Marham, Wittering, etc are running campaigns to save the base on the belief that they are vulnerable to closure. I don't know what the local impact of closure is in the majority of cases, but in the case of Lossiemouth, with Kinloss already going (if an Army unit doesn't move in) the impact on the Moray economy would be devestating - apparently the impact (% wise) would be the equivalent of losing 700,000 jobs in the London area (presumably inner and outer London). I'm only passing on that statistic, and can't vouche for its accuracy!
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 16:48
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Cheers.

The way politicians seem to flip flop according to the volume of various public outcries makes you wonder if they shouldn't make it a TV shoot out and absolve themselves of responsibility completely. I'm a threatened RAF station, get me out of here.

I was at Kinloss for a couple of years and shudder at the prospect on the Region if those 2 units closed for good.
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 18:12
  #94 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by TorqueOfTheDevil View Post
Lossie had a new runway recently (2005?) so if Lossie closes, some of the money spent there would be wasted (new WO/Sgts Mess, new Med Centre etc).
And a new officers' mess and, I think SFA. Total red herring however as money spent it money gone and defence has a history or closing bases that have just had major expenditure.

Alness had half a million (a lot in the 70s) and before the paint was dry the Marine Branch was disbanded. Finningley, after decades of using WW2 'shacks' as a Nav School finally got a new purpose built and subsidistence resistant Nav School and closed shortly afterwards.

Longer life, but look at Cottesmore's Officers' Mess and contrast with Wittering, and so it goes on.
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 18:56
  #95 (permalink)  
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Apologies for getting hold of the wrong end of the stick, but 'Kinloss and two other stations'; given the demise of the Harrier, one other would be Wittering. But what about Leeming and/or Linton - would/could that account for the other and EGQS/EGYM/EGQL could start breathing again? Or have they allready been accounted for elsewhere? Or am I barking up the wrong tree? (not an unknown occurance)
 
Old 22nd Nov 2010, 21:07
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Total red herring however as money spent it [sic] money gone
My point exactly - which is why wittering on (geddit?) about the 40m allegedly spent at Leuchars is pointless. Unsurprisingly the individual concerned has deleted his post...all that's left is what I quoted earlier on!
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Old 22nd Nov 2010, 22:53
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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ZZZZZZZZZZ

Last edited by ATFQ; 5th Jun 2016 at 08:23.
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Old 24th Nov 2010, 01:00
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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TOTD/ATFQ - agree entirely

Hopefully someone will see sense.
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Old 24th Nov 2010, 09:20
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Leave my Leuchars alone you hulking great brutes!

FB
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Old 24th Nov 2010, 12:58
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Leave my Leuchars alone you hulking great brutes!
Doesn't look good for Leuchars does it, when Finningley Boy starts referring to it as mine!
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