Decision to axe Harrier is "bonkers".
FODPlod,
In post 1272 you point out, quite rightly, the costs overruns for Typhoon:
"...Overall, it is costing the Department £20.2 billion, £3.5 billion more than it first expected, to buy a third fewer aircraft. This is equivalent to the purchase cost of each aircraft rising by 75%, from £72 million to £126 million..."
What makes you think that exactly the same thing won't happen to JSF/F-35? When I occasionally read the F-35 thread on pprune delays and expected cost overruns seem to be a common theme...
Can you actually see the UK ending up with the 140 odd airframes that were originally envisaged? At the price originally expected?
I believe in the case of the A-400M we already have the classic supermarket offer....."23 for the price of 25"....or something akin to that. A deal like that must have people rushing to buy.
What was the original price/planned numbers vs final cost/final numbers for Astute, Type 45, etc? Let alone original vs final price for the 2 carriers.
In post 1272 you point out, quite rightly, the costs overruns for Typhoon:
"...Overall, it is costing the Department £20.2 billion, £3.5 billion more than it first expected, to buy a third fewer aircraft. This is equivalent to the purchase cost of each aircraft rising by 75%, from £72 million to £126 million..."
What makes you think that exactly the same thing won't happen to JSF/F-35? When I occasionally read the F-35 thread on pprune delays and expected cost overruns seem to be a common theme...
Can you actually see the UK ending up with the 140 odd airframes that were originally envisaged? At the price originally expected?
I believe in the case of the A-400M we already have the classic supermarket offer....."23 for the price of 25"....or something akin to that. A deal like that must have people rushing to buy.
What was the original price/planned numbers vs final cost/final numbers for Astute, Type 45, etc? Let alone original vs final price for the 2 carriers.
Biggus
No to both! And given the strange attitude that the non-FAA admirals seem to have towards FW FAA I sometimes wonder whether they would be bothered if there were any aircraft or not - just as long as they got their two big ships to play with! And as the pressure on the budget increases as F35 costs increase, with the resultant demands to make savings elsewhere, I suspect the RN hierarchy will be 'quick' to pass control of all FW to the RAF so that such budgetary pressures will be 'forced' upon the light blue pot (i.e. capability gap with earlier out of service date for the GR4) and not the dark blue (i.e less T45 / support vessels etc). All just my view of course - expect to see it from 2015 onwards is my guess 
Can you actually see the UK ending up with the 140 odd airframes that were originally envisaged? At the price originally expected?
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I suspect the RN hierarchy will be 'quick' to pass control of all FW to the RAF so that such budgetary pressures will be 'forced' upon the light blue pot
And given the tainted sate of the current RAF heirachy v-a-v the current politicians, I wouldn't make any assumptions about the future direction of the RAF and its aircraft.
By OA:
Quote: "what we really need to do from a UK Joint point of view is run an investment appraisal of buying carriers against spending the same amount on some additional tankers..... "
As long as that includes the CVA's ability to act as the JFHQ, C3I platform, ASW platform, Stores & Personnel transport, Disaster Relief vessel etc then crack on.
Quote: "what we really need to do from a UK Joint point of view is run an investment appraisal of buying carriers against spending the same amount on some additional tankers..... "
As long as that includes the CVA's ability to act as the JFHQ, C3I platform, ASW platform, Stores & Personnel transport, Disaster Relief vessel etc then crack on.
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8 FAA Admirals!
How many FAA Squadrons?
How many FAA Squadrons?
Unlike their RAF counterparts FAA officers are not "single role" and all of these fine chaps will have driven ships as well as being fly-ers (fliers they certainly are).
But apart from that, point well made!
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Andyy,
The investment appraisal itself wouldn't, (other than as additional costs for role equipment) but the COEIA ( Combined Operational Effectiveness and Investment Appraisal) would, as part of the effectiveness element
JSP 507 refers.
Damn, must get out more!
The investment appraisal itself wouldn't, (other than as additional costs for role equipment) but the COEIA ( Combined Operational Effectiveness and Investment Appraisal) would, as part of the effectiveness element
JSP 507 refers.
Damn, must get out more!
Cpt Pugwash - many thanks!
Cazatou - Only in part. And as I'm sure that we'd all agree, aviation assets are a great enabler & force multiplier so its the carrier's ability to carry aircraft that enhance its ability in all the roles I mentioned. And carry out some of the roles simultaneously.
Cazatou - Only in part. And as I'm sure that we'd all agree, aviation assets are a great enabler & force multiplier so its the carrier's ability to carry aircraft that enhance its ability in all the roles I mentioned. And carry out some of the roles simultaneously.
Last edited by andyy; 23rd Sep 2011 at 14:20.
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Originally Posted by Bismark
Cat,
Unlike their RAF counterparts FAA officers are not "single role" and all of these fine chaps will have driven ships as well as being fly-ers (fliers they certainly are).
But apart from that, point well made!
Unlike their RAF counterparts FAA officers are not "single role" and all of these fine chaps will have driven ships as well as being fly-ers (fliers they certainly are).
But apart from that, point well made!
Talk about value for money. What do RAF pilots do when they're not posted for flying duties?
Originally Posted by Archimedes
Concentrate upon some other aspect of their core business of military aviation, rather than have to be distracted by a sideline? 
I think you mean that they can't multi-task.
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66 Pages on a decision that will never be reversed or changed!
Harrier has gone, Tornado does the biz! Full stop!
We all regret the decision but now it's time to move on!
C'mon Mods - Close this drivel down!
It's getting in the way of progress!
Foldie
Harrier has gone, Tornado does the biz! Full stop!
We all regret the decision but now it's time to move on!
C'mon Mods - Close this drivel down!
It's getting in the way of progress!
Foldie
Originally Posted by Wrathmonk
Originally Posted by Bismark
Given that the RN will soon have at least 3 x 3* FAA admirals and has about 5 x 2* FAA admirals
Just out of curiosity how many of those are FW???
RN FW pilot transitioning to RW
Last edited by FODPlod; 23rd Sep 2011 at 17:17.