"General Two Dinners" - CGS
There are more questions than answers, and what this article/thread raises are further questions......
Why has he not completed a fitness test (BFT?) in the last 10 years (45-50) when he should have completed one up until the age of 50? A medical reason is one possibility.
If the Army stop fitness tests at 50, why do the RAF (and RN?) continue testing until 55? Perhaps because the RAF has a higher percentage of 50+ year olds?
No one appears to be doubting the generals ability, indeed everyone seems to praise it. However, as has already been stated, one of the basic principles of sound leadership is setting a good example.
It would appear, and I stress the word appear, that on the few (insufficient?) facts available the general is not setting a good example.
As has also been pointed out, this is in an area where the RAF is dismissing people for failing to meet an apparently arbitary level of fitness, so making the apparent double standard in this case seem even more outrageous.
For everyone saying he is good at his job, and doesn't need to be uberfit to be a general, someone else will say that he knows a mate who is good at their job, and doesn't need to be uberfit to do it, that is about to be thrown out of the RAF for failing a fitness test that the general has apparently avoided.
That is the heart of the problem.....
Why has he not completed a fitness test (BFT?) in the last 10 years (45-50) when he should have completed one up until the age of 50? A medical reason is one possibility.
If the Army stop fitness tests at 50, why do the RAF (and RN?) continue testing until 55? Perhaps because the RAF has a higher percentage of 50+ year olds?
No one appears to be doubting the generals ability, indeed everyone seems to praise it. However, as has already been stated, one of the basic principles of sound leadership is setting a good example.
It would appear, and I stress the word appear, that on the few (insufficient?) facts available the general is not setting a good example.
As has also been pointed out, this is in an area where the RAF is dismissing people for failing to meet an apparently arbitary level of fitness, so making the apparent double standard in this case seem even more outrageous.
For everyone saying he is good at his job, and doesn't need to be uberfit to be a general, someone else will say that he knows a mate who is good at their job, and doesn't need to be uberfit to do it, that is about to be thrown out of the RAF for failing a fitness test that the general has apparently avoided.
That is the heart of the problem.....
Here's a sad fact about physical exercise in the RAF. This year at HQ Air Command we have lost a 4* Air Chief Marshal and in the past week a Senior Aircraftsman that died whilst doing phys - how's that for a tragic Rank range? I think the mirror loving muscle mechanics have a lot to answer for - they're kiling more of our people than Terry Taliban!
(alright the last comment was a bit tongue in cheek but there is a strong message in there).
This must be a trigger to revisit the PTI madness and go back to a more realistic system. Surely the annual visit to the SMO declares your fitness? After all the CAA don't make me run around for 10 minutes, they get a medical professional to assess and declare my fitness to fly (as they do for all fixed wing and rotary aircraft).
LJ
(alright the last comment was a bit tongue in cheek but there is a strong message in there).
This must be a trigger to revisit the PTI madness and go back to a more realistic system. Surely the annual visit to the SMO declares your fitness? After all the CAA don't make me run around for 10 minutes, they get a medical professional to assess and declare my fitness to fly (as they do for all fixed wing and rotary aircraft).
LJ
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A fitness test is mandatory for promotion.
Somehow I do not find myself all that ready to take the word of a Daily Wail journo (with his numerous un-named 'sources') over the evident fact that the General has been promoted to CGS.
Somehow I do not find myself all that ready to take the word of a Daily Wail journo (with his numerous un-named 'sources') over the evident fact that the General has been promoted to CGS.
Ohh really lets put credibility with logic and reason shall we and just say that you should be fit for your role. No doubt Genghis Khan was a fit %&^$er but he lead from the front and was probably a decade or two younger. Different times. If you have to go out and walk 20klm in full kit then you had better be fit enough to do it. If you have to go out hack rack and zoom then you had better be fit enough to do it.
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Exactly finest kind, I agree entirely. 
The General is operating within the rules, set by someone else and not him, and is probably "fit to fight " in his current role (though unfortunately unlikely to catch up Jayand and recover his second fish and chips, Seldom
)
Seems that the modern disease of style over substance is involved in this somewhere, Airships feeling ego damage when someone compares muscly pongo's to wobbly linies. The only way that I could see fat affecting your performance to fix a jet, would be if it stopped you getting at what you needed to fix.
Just imagine what the headlines would be though if the good General took it on himself to redress the obvious flaws in the system.....he can't win either way
The General is operating within the rules, set by someone else and not him, and is probably "fit to fight " in his current role (though unfortunately unlikely to catch up Jayand and recover his second fish and chips, Seldom
)Seems that the modern disease of style over substance is involved in this somewhere, Airships feeling ego damage when someone compares muscly pongo's to wobbly linies. The only way that I could see fat affecting your performance to fix a jet, would be if it stopped you getting at what you needed to fix.
Just imagine what the headlines would be though if the good General took it on himself to redress the obvious flaws in the system.....he can't win either way
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Spot on Deliverance,
Nobody would take seriously a SWO if he was a sack of **** with long sideburns and scuffed shoes would they? so what's the difference?
Some people need to change their mindset about fitness in the armed forces, many are only too happy to boast of their secondary duties as the chair of the some obscure station club or as a helper at the Village scout troop and love to mention them in their ACR comments.
Many get promoted on the back of these "duties" whilst at the same time moaning about having to do what is part of every serviceman and womans Primary duty (keeping fit)
Unless my memory serves me wrong fitness isn't a newly introduced concept in the forces so it shouldn't come as a shock that perhaps you should keep it up throughout your career and not just during training!
The argument about "being fit for your job" holds no water, yes the infantry need to be fitter than the adjutant corps but they all need a reasonable minimum standard, if you can't meet that standard then the rules should apply equally irrespective of age/rank/service/trade or talent.
It's not just a once a year inconvienience it's part of our job and always has been.
Nobody would take seriously a SWO if he was a sack of **** with long sideburns and scuffed shoes would they? so what's the difference?
Some people need to change their mindset about fitness in the armed forces, many are only too happy to boast of their secondary duties as the chair of the some obscure station club or as a helper at the Village scout troop and love to mention them in their ACR comments.
Many get promoted on the back of these "duties" whilst at the same time moaning about having to do what is part of every serviceman and womans Primary duty (keeping fit)
Unless my memory serves me wrong fitness isn't a newly introduced concept in the forces so it shouldn't come as a shock that perhaps you should keep it up throughout your career and not just during training!
The argument about "being fit for your job" holds no water, yes the infantry need to be fitter than the adjutant corps but they all need a reasonable minimum standard, if you can't meet that standard then the rules should apply equally irrespective of age/rank/service/trade or talent.
It's not just a once a year inconvienience it's part of our job and always has been.
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Some people need to spend more time doing their primary job instead of worrying about the rest of us. I would prefer to serve under a well respected but slightly portly general that gets the job done than some racing snake tw@ that chiselled his way to the top.
If you want to be surrounded by like minded mirror lovers, leave the forces and join fitness first.
If you want to be surrounded by like minded mirror lovers, leave the forces and join fitness first.
Really getting boring now gents. Some of you seriously need to get another life and move away from this thread now.
whilst at the same time moaning about having to do what is part of every serviceman and womans Primary duty (keeping fit)
Keeping fit is an enabler for that, as you point out, but it is not the primary aim. CCS, trade knowledge, ability, integrity, ability to lead & motivate, work within a team etc are all as crucial as personal fitness.
Yes, fitness is important but it is one singular skill amongst many that are needed. I'd rather have a fat, but knowledgable engineer fixing my aircraft than a fit but useless one. In the same vein, I'd rather have a fit rockape with half a gcse in woodwork guarding me than a lardy one with a PHD.
Can we argue about something else now?
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Absolutely, but if you are going to pick me up on my posts then please read them properly, "having to do what is part of every serviceman and womans Primary duty (keeping fit)" I simply said part of your primary duty.
Moving on.
To the gym!!!!
Moving on.
To the gym!!!!
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MGD
I think you have, very succinctly, said it all.
Endat!
I couldn't agree more. The RAF as a whole, don't feel the need to be fit enough to protect themselves when the s**t hits the fan (judging by this thread), and bearing in mind that is when they would be most needed, they are happy to be unfit for purpose, so may as well give up right now!
Just as a fat lardy rock is useless, a whole gang of fat lardies helping him guard the station will very quickly be overrun!
Sorry to live in the real world, but if there was a 'real' full on conflict, there would be plenty of hairy arsed baddies swarming over the fence to get you (in the UK), and it would look a bit like a lardy turkey shoot!
Of course, once all the nice fit rocks are dead, you could all shout "don't shoot me, I only need to be able to generate aircraft, I don't need to be fit enough to defend myself"
Pretty sad last words really.
(retreats to safety, and understands that those who wished to be fit to fight, and be part of a deadly military force, would have joined another service
)
I think you have, very succinctly, said it all.
Endat!
I couldn't agree more. The RAF as a whole, don't feel the need to be fit enough to protect themselves when the s**t hits the fan (judging by this thread), and bearing in mind that is when they would be most needed, they are happy to be unfit for purpose, so may as well give up right now!
Just as a fat lardy rock is useless, a whole gang of fat lardies helping him guard the station will very quickly be overrun!
Sorry to live in the real world, but if there was a 'real' full on conflict, there would be plenty of hairy arsed baddies swarming over the fence to get you (in the UK), and it would look a bit like a lardy turkey shoot!
Of course, once all the nice fit rocks are dead, you could all shout "don't shoot me, I only need to be able to generate aircraft, I don't need to be fit enough to defend myself"
Pretty sad last words really.
(retreats to safety, and understands that those who wished to be fit to fight, and be part of a deadly military force, would have joined another service
)
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Just as a fat lardy rock is useless, a whole gang of fat lardies helping him guard the station will very quickly be overrun!
Sorry to live in the real world, but if there was a 'real' full on conflict, there would be plenty of hairy arsed baddies swarming over the fence to get you (in the UK), and it would look a bit like a lardy turkey shoot!
Of course, once all the nice fit rocks are dead, you could all shout "don't shoot me, I only need to be able to generate aircraft, I don't need to be fit enough to defend myself"
Pretty sad last words really
Sorry to live in the real world, but if there was a 'real' full on conflict, there would be plenty of hairy arsed baddies swarming over the fence to get you (in the UK), and it would look a bit like a lardy turkey shoot!
Of course, once all the nice fit rocks are dead, you could all shout "don't shoot me, I only need to be able to generate aircraft, I don't need to be fit enough to defend myself"
Pretty sad last words really
OK, lets disband the rocks, army and marines and give the engineers regular intensive infantry courses. Ground crew dayshift can be on guard while nightshift service the aircraft and after twelve hours they can relieve each other. I think I've just saved MoD a fortune.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
I'd rather have a fat, but knowledgable engineer fixing my aircraft than a fit but useless one.
MGD, is a fat useless one also an option?
I'll tell you another thing though.... when the IRT shout comes in, Ive never seen any engineer dawdle to the cab. Doesn't matter if they are 3 stone or 23 stone they all cover the length of the pan in nanoseconds.
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What I want to know is how he got fat on only 2 dinners?
Maybe it was all the beer he drunk while being an Army and CS rugby player that did it - not sure if he had to be fit to do that but think he might.
By the way, met him and I'm not going to tell him he is larger than his uniform!!!!
Maybe it was all the beer he drunk while being an Army and CS rugby player that did it - not sure if he had to be fit to do that but think he might.
By the way, met him and I'm not going to tell him he is larger than his uniform!!!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
At least it explains why my Colonel was fat; he was obviously exempt and had outgrown his No 1s too. Even his CS95 was a tight fit. Now his FTRS RSM was as fit as a fiddle and smart as any SWO.
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I'll tell you another thing though.... when the IRT shout comes in, Ive never seen any engineer dawdle to the cab. Doesn't matter if they are 3 stone or 23 stone they all cover the length of the pan in nanoseconds.
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The RAF fitness test is compulsary over 50 and if you continue to serve over 55 years of age - so why the Delta between the Army and RAF regulations?
LJ
LJ
If it still bugs you then please feel free to address the matter to the CGS. I'm sure he'll listen to you and be gentle
