F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
....It isn't that I am anti-F-35, it is that I am anti-stupid people that do stupid things that history has demonstrated can't be done. I mean really, why did the F-4 Phantom, the F-15, the F-16 and the F-18 come into being? Because of a stupid decision railroaded through by McNamara simply on the basis of poor data to save money that resulted in a boondoggle that hardly worked for anything.....
Huhhh? If this is an anti-F-111 rant, and anti jack of all trades rant, I get that, but I really have to question the mentioning of the F-4, F-15, F-16 and F-18 coming about because of the problems of the F-111 program. The F-14 is the only aircraft I would directly cite as coming into being due to the F-111 failures- namely the failure of the F-111B to meet US Navy program requirements and never being put into production. There I do get that the requirements of a USAF penetrator and a USN fleet defense fighter should never have been kludged into one airframe- it was doomed to failure, so I do agree there. I also agree that doing this for the F-35 was a bridge too far.
The F-4 was developed as a Fleet Defense fighter for the US Navy long before the TFX/F-111 program. It was later adopted by the USAF and a host of other nations as a multi-role fighter, and is arguably the best example of a multi mission "fighter". It did many things well (I did not say it was the "best" at anything).
The F-15 was an air superiority fighter. Period. Not related to the F-111 problems or mission at all. Designed to achieve air superiority and replace other airframes such as the F-4 and others.
The F-16 was a light day fighter of the Boyd era. No relation to the F-111 problems. Part of the ho-low mix with the F-15.
The F-18 was designed as a carrier capable aircraft to replace the A-4 and A-7 in the light attack role, with the benefit of being a fighter as well.
The F-14 was a direct result of the failure of the F-111B to enter US Navy service, but you did not list the Tomcat. The engines, radar and Phoenix missiles were recycled from the F-111B for the F-14.
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I think he is saying that they (and certainly the F-16/18 as light weight fighters (thanks you Boyd)) came about as a consequence of the fingers burnt with the F-111A/B single design for USAF/USN debacle.
Tourist,
You have never written Flight Manuals for Airbus have you Turbine D?
sandiego89,
You provided definition to the point the best military jets are designed for specific missions, unlike that which has taken place on the F-35 program.
Doesn't sound much like Fighter Jock talk, with all of that ISR and computer jargon, but it sounds like previous points on (forty of fifty pages ago) "fifth gen is a different game" seems to be the core take away point.
Also, consider the intended audience for that presentation.
Also, consider the intended audience for that presentation.
"adult beverage?"
I recently took charge of my four-year-old grandson and took him to a shipwreck museum before enjoying lunch at a pub with an outdoor play area. The following day, my daughter told me how she had heard all about our visit to a "cafe" where I drank "Grandad Juice".
Here's a nice new article about the F-35 to put us back on track:
I recently took charge of my four-year-old grandson and took him to a shipwreck museum before enjoying lunch at a pub with an outdoor play area. The following day, my daughter told me how she had heard all about our visit to a "cafe" where I drank "Grandad Juice".
Here's a nice new article about the F-35 to put us back on track:
Originally Posted by The National Interest 5 Aug 2016
Air Force Gen. Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, commander of Air Combat Command, this week declared the F-35A fighter jet ready for combat. While many pundits and politicians have questioned the worth of this jet, the only people who know the ground truth are the pilots themselves.
A total of 174 U.S. pilots currently have been trained to fly Lockheed Martin’s F-35A Lightning II. The Heritage Foundation recently interviewed 31 of these former F-15C, F-15E, F-16C, and A-10 pilots. Each expressed a high degree of confidence in the F-35A, their new fifth-generation platform.
Here are nine insights gleaned from those conversations:
1. Even with developmental restrictions that limit the F-35A’s responsiveness and ability to maneuver, every U.S. fighter pilot interviewed would pick the F-35A over his former jet in a majority of air-to-air (dogfight) engagement scenarios they could face...
A total of 174 U.S. pilots currently have been trained to fly Lockheed Martin’s F-35A Lightning II. The Heritage Foundation recently interviewed 31 of these former F-15C, F-15E, F-16C, and A-10 pilots. Each expressed a high degree of confidence in the F-35A, their new fifth-generation platform.
Here are nine insights gleaned from those conversations:
1. Even with developmental restrictions that limit the F-35A’s responsiveness and ability to maneuver, every U.S. fighter pilot interviewed would pick the F-35A over his former jet in a majority of air-to-air (dogfight) engagement scenarios they could face...
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Plod
handing a bright new shiny jet to a bunch of pilots and asking them for their opinion is one of the oldest tricks in the book. British, French, Russian and above all US aeronautical history since 1945 is full of cases like this
And a few years later the problems appear and planes & pilots are lost and costs soar.......
handing a bright new shiny jet to a bunch of pilots and asking them for their opinion is one of the oldest tricks in the book. British, French, Russian and above all US aeronautical history since 1945 is full of cases like this
And a few years later the problems appear and planes & pilots are lost and costs soar.......
Plod
handing a bright new shiny jet to a bunch of pilots and asking them for their opinion is one of the oldest tricks in the book. British, French, Russian and above all US aeronautical history since 1945 is full of cases like this
And a few years later the problems appear and planes & pilots are lost and costs soar.......
handing a bright new shiny jet to a bunch of pilots and asking them for their opinion is one of the oldest tricks in the book. British, French, Russian and above all US aeronautical history since 1945 is full of cases like this
And a few years later the problems appear and planes & pilots are lost and costs soar.......
You certainly nailed your colours to the mast early enough, though. This is from Feb 2011:
Are you seriously suggesting that we should weigh your opinion of the F-35 over that of the pilots who are flying it?
Last edited by FODPlod; 6th Aug 2016 at 23:19.
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If they get out of an F15 and into an F35 and the performance seems poor, they will notice the contrast immediately.
From what some of here have suggested, surely you would have expected quotes like
"doesn't turn like my old jet"
"visibility is rubbish compared"
"flys like a dog"
etc etc.
Trying to suggest that this is anything other than welcome positive news is just showing your bias.
There are huge numbers of these flying now with pilots from many countries and I have yet to hear a single voice from those who have flown it suggesting that it is anything other than great.
Yes it has been a procurement disaster, and it may well be poor value for money, but tying to suggest it is also a rubbish aircraft is starting to sound closed minded.
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"bright new shiny jet"? The F-35 has clocked up well over 50,000 flying hours since it first flew almost ten years ago. Unless you know otherwise, it has yet to suffer any significant aerial incident causing loss of life during its trials and testing. What other FJ can claim that safety record during its development?
You certainly nailed your colours to the mast early enough, though. This is from Feb 2011:
"fact", eh?
Are you seriously suggesting that we should weigh your opinion of the F-35 over that of the pilots who are flying it?
You certainly nailed your colours to the mast early enough, though. This is from Feb 2011:
"fact", eh?
Are you seriously suggesting that we should weigh your opinion of the F-35 over that of the pilots who are flying it?
And why not indeed.
My RIAT photos Sim AAR with KC-130J
Hi guys,
I have to admit, am very impressed what I saw at RIAT, very impressed. So here are my photos starting off with the simulated refel between Cherry Point's finest,
cheers
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I have to admit, am very impressed what I saw at RIAT, very impressed. So here are my photos starting off with the simulated refel between Cherry Point's finest,
cheers
cheers
Last edited by chopper2004; 7th Aug 2016 at 15:20.
RIAT 2016 USAF Heritage Flight
Next installment are my photos of the Luke's finest albeit with Langley's finest,
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RIAT 2016 Dambusters
Finally the piece de la resistance - my photos of Dambusters finest performing at Fairford in form with the Reds finally a nice landing
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F-35 Marks New Era For Stealth
F-35 Marks New Era For Stealth
Aviation Week.com 08/05/2016
Author: Lara Seligman
It took the Air Force almost a decade to send the F-22 Raptor to a combat zone after declaring the stealth fighter ready for war. But after giving the green light to the first operational F-35A squadron in late July, the Air Force is signaling the fledgling fleet will deploy to fight Islamic State group terrorists in the very near future.The Air Force’s eagerness to send its shiny new fighter into battle is a marked shift from years past, when deploying the radar-avoiding F-22 to the Middle East was viewed as provocative. But as the U.S. and its allies face a resurgent Russia and the proliferation of advanced weapons that can easily track and shoot down many legacy fighters, the service seems to be casting aside the Pentagon’s historically more cautious use of stealth aircraft.
Despite the Air Force's confidence, the F-35 will not reach full warfighting capability until 2018, at earliest
Gen. Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, the chief of Air Combat Command, says he hopes in the next 18 months to send the Joint Strike Fighter to Europe and the Pacific, suggesting that such a move would send a message in response to increasing Russian and Chinese military activity. And if U.S. Central Command asks for the F-35 in the Middle East, Carlisle says he would comply in a heartbeat.
“From my perspective, it sends a good signal,” Carlisle says. “I think it reassures friends and allies and is a deterrent to potential adversaries, so I don’t think it’s a provocative move at all.”
In rolling out the F-35, the Air Force may be taking lessons learned from the Raptor to heart. Although the F-22 entered service in 2005, the jet did not see its first combat deployment until the U.S.-led intervention in Syria in 2014. The F-22’s deployments to the Middle East to fight Islamic State insurgents and to Europe to counter Russian aggression did wonders for its public image. The Raptor is now so popular, Congress has inquired about what it would take to resurrect the production line.
Now as the F-35 comes online, our partners and allies are eager to see the jet in action, Carlisle says.
When F-35s deploy to the European and Pacific theater, this will give our allies and partners confidence in the airframe, Carlisle says. “It will also give them a chance to see it in operation and in interoperability, working with their fourth-generation airplanes,” he adds.
Even though Carlisle lauded the F-35’s performance, the stealthy fighter jet is still immature and has limited capability to actually fight on today’s battlefield. Two U.S. F-35 variants—the Marine Corps’ F-35B and now the Air Force’s F-35A—have been declared ready for combat, but the jet will not be fully operational until it has completed a vigorous testing period that will not begin until August 2018, at the earliest. The initial aircraft will not have its full suite of electronic warfare, data fusion, automated maintenance capability or weapons capacity until the final warfighting software, Block 3F, is fielded in 2018.
For now, the F-35A in its 3i configuration can carry the AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, GPS-guided Joint Direct Attack Munition and laser-guided Paveway missile. Block 3F will add the short-range AIM-9X Sidewinder missile, Small-Diameter Bomb and main gun system—the 25-mm, four-barrel GAU-22/A.
The gun is key to one of the F-35’s primary missions: protecting soldiers on the ground, also called close-air support. Though a 2,000-lb. bomb is effective in destroying a target, a huge blast is not ideal when enemy and friendly ground forces are engaged in close combat.
Meanwhile, the Pentagon’s top weapons tester cautions that while it is the Air Force’s decision when to declare the F-35 ready for war, the Block 3i software is limited, and its deficiencies will impact mission effectiveness.
“While the USAF has determined that the F-35A with Block 3i mission systems software provides ‘basic’ capabilities for IOC [initial operating capability], the limitations and deficiencies in performance for the F-35A with Block 3i discussed in the 2015 DOT&E [Director, Operational Test and Evaluation] Annual Report largely remain and will affect mission effectiveness and suitability in combat,” says Pentagon spokesman Maj. Roger Cabiness.
Still, Carlisle says, the F-35 is equipped to carry out many missions U.S. forces are flying today in the Middle East, including pre-planned airstrikes, interdiction, and defensive and offensive counter air. Even without its full potential, the Air Force would have no qualms about sending it into battle.
Marine Fighter Attack Sqdn. (VMFA) 121, the “Green Knights” based out of MCAS Yuma, Arizona, will be the first to deploy overseas; in January the squadron flies to MCAS Iwakuni, Japan. Meanwhile, RAF Lakenheath in the U.K. is set to receive its first of 24 jets in 2021.
“The F-35A brings an unprecedented combination of lethality, survivability and adaptability to joint and combined operations and is ready to deploy and strike well-defended targets anywhere on Earth,” says newly minted Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein.
Aviation Week.com 08/05/2016
Author: Lara Seligman
It took the Air Force almost a decade to send the F-22 Raptor to a combat zone after declaring the stealth fighter ready for war. But after giving the green light to the first operational F-35A squadron in late July, the Air Force is signaling the fledgling fleet will deploy to fight Islamic State group terrorists in the very near future.The Air Force’s eagerness to send its shiny new fighter into battle is a marked shift from years past, when deploying the radar-avoiding F-22 to the Middle East was viewed as provocative. But as the U.S. and its allies face a resurgent Russia and the proliferation of advanced weapons that can easily track and shoot down many legacy fighters, the service seems to be casting aside the Pentagon’s historically more cautious use of stealth aircraft.
Despite the Air Force's confidence, the F-35 will not reach full warfighting capability until 2018, at earliest
Gen. Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, the chief of Air Combat Command, says he hopes in the next 18 months to send the Joint Strike Fighter to Europe and the Pacific, suggesting that such a move would send a message in response to increasing Russian and Chinese military activity. And if U.S. Central Command asks for the F-35 in the Middle East, Carlisle says he would comply in a heartbeat.
“From my perspective, it sends a good signal,” Carlisle says. “I think it reassures friends and allies and is a deterrent to potential adversaries, so I don’t think it’s a provocative move at all.”
In rolling out the F-35, the Air Force may be taking lessons learned from the Raptor to heart. Although the F-22 entered service in 2005, the jet did not see its first combat deployment until the U.S.-led intervention in Syria in 2014. The F-22’s deployments to the Middle East to fight Islamic State insurgents and to Europe to counter Russian aggression did wonders for its public image. The Raptor is now so popular, Congress has inquired about what it would take to resurrect the production line.
Now as the F-35 comes online, our partners and allies are eager to see the jet in action, Carlisle says.
When F-35s deploy to the European and Pacific theater, this will give our allies and partners confidence in the airframe, Carlisle says. “It will also give them a chance to see it in operation and in interoperability, working with their fourth-generation airplanes,” he adds.
Even though Carlisle lauded the F-35’s performance, the stealthy fighter jet is still immature and has limited capability to actually fight on today’s battlefield. Two U.S. F-35 variants—the Marine Corps’ F-35B and now the Air Force’s F-35A—have been declared ready for combat, but the jet will not be fully operational until it has completed a vigorous testing period that will not begin until August 2018, at the earliest. The initial aircraft will not have its full suite of electronic warfare, data fusion, automated maintenance capability or weapons capacity until the final warfighting software, Block 3F, is fielded in 2018.
For now, the F-35A in its 3i configuration can carry the AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, GPS-guided Joint Direct Attack Munition and laser-guided Paveway missile. Block 3F will add the short-range AIM-9X Sidewinder missile, Small-Diameter Bomb and main gun system—the 25-mm, four-barrel GAU-22/A.
The gun is key to one of the F-35’s primary missions: protecting soldiers on the ground, also called close-air support. Though a 2,000-lb. bomb is effective in destroying a target, a huge blast is not ideal when enemy and friendly ground forces are engaged in close combat.
Meanwhile, the Pentagon’s top weapons tester cautions that while it is the Air Force’s decision when to declare the F-35 ready for war, the Block 3i software is limited, and its deficiencies will impact mission effectiveness.
“While the USAF has determined that the F-35A with Block 3i mission systems software provides ‘basic’ capabilities for IOC [initial operating capability], the limitations and deficiencies in performance for the F-35A with Block 3i discussed in the 2015 DOT&E [Director, Operational Test and Evaluation] Annual Report largely remain and will affect mission effectiveness and suitability in combat,” says Pentagon spokesman Maj. Roger Cabiness.
Still, Carlisle says, the F-35 is equipped to carry out many missions U.S. forces are flying today in the Middle East, including pre-planned airstrikes, interdiction, and defensive and offensive counter air. Even without its full potential, the Air Force would have no qualms about sending it into battle.
Marine Fighter Attack Sqdn. (VMFA) 121, the “Green Knights” based out of MCAS Yuma, Arizona, will be the first to deploy overseas; in January the squadron flies to MCAS Iwakuni, Japan. Meanwhile, RAF Lakenheath in the U.K. is set to receive its first of 24 jets in 2021.
“The F-35A brings an unprecedented combination of lethality, survivability and adaptability to joint and combined operations and is ready to deploy and strike well-defended targets anywhere on Earth,” says newly minted Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein.
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It seems to me that the take away for Gen Goldfein's address at Red Flag was that the greatest strength of the F-35 is its connectivity and the onboard fusion/display capabilities of the aircraft which provide its pilots with unprecedented situational awareness and control. Now the million dollar question: how much does stealth add to that equation? If you can get 90% of the F-35's capabilities without stealth, would it make sense to put the F-35's avionics into a non stealth airframe? So probably not a 5th generation fighter but maybe 4.8?
Yeah, if all other capabilities can be back-fitted ... why not do so? It will be a long while before the whole fleet is procured. Of course, that whole connectedness and battlefield SA was a prime feature of the Army's Comanche and Force XXI ... and we see how that ended.
With all due regard to Ms Seligman's efforts at reporting, "shiny" isn't what the F-35 is all about ... quite the opposite if one reads the sales brochures.
(Still not sure if one should lease it rather than buy it ... "if it floats, flies, or f***'s, lease it don't buy it!"
)
(Still not sure if one should lease it rather than buy it ... "if it floats, flies, or f***'s, lease it don't buy it!"
)
PICTURES: First flight for Israel's F-35A Adir
From Flight Global
From Flight Global
Lockheed Martin completed the first flight of an F-35A Adir for the Israeli air force on 25 July, just one month after rolling the aircraft out at its Fort Worth site in Texas on 22 June. The first of the service’s 33 conventional take-off and landing F-35As on order, aircraft AS-1 underwent a successful check flight, Lockheed says. Israel’s first two F-35As – AS-1 and AS-2 – are scheduled to arrive at Nevatim airbase on 12 December, where they will be used to support initial pilot training activities.
Singapore F-35 on hold
Enough Air Power? Singapore Drops the F-35 Stealth Fighter | The Diplomat
Singapore is putting on hold plans to procure up to 12 Lockheed-Martin supersonic fifth-generation F-35B stealth multirole fighter jets for the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF), according to the Pentagon’s F-35 program office, Bloomberg News reports.
Singapore’s Permanent Secretary for Defense Development, Ng Chee Kern, purportedly already informed the U.S. Department of Defense in the middle of June about the city state’s decision to postpone the acquisition of four F-35B fighter jets by 2022. (A tentative agreement included an option to buy an additional eight aircraft.)
However, U.S. President Barack Obama was apparently unaware of the mid-June decision taken by the city state. “We welcome Singapore’s interest in purchasing the F-35 aircraft,” he said last week at a White House press conference with Singapore’s Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.
Singapore is putting on hold plans to procure up to 12 Lockheed-Martin supersonic fifth-generation F-35B stealth multirole fighter jets for the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF), according to the Pentagon’s F-35 program office, Bloomberg News reports.
Singapore’s Permanent Secretary for Defense Development, Ng Chee Kern, purportedly already informed the U.S. Department of Defense in the middle of June about the city state’s decision to postpone the acquisition of four F-35B fighter jets by 2022. (A tentative agreement included an option to buy an additional eight aircraft.)
However, U.S. President Barack Obama was apparently unaware of the mid-June decision taken by the city state. “We welcome Singapore’s interest in purchasing the F-35 aircraft,” he said last week at a White House press conference with Singapore’s Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.