Naval Typhoon
More bang for your buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: land of the clanger
Age: 82
Posts: 3,512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For all the criticism of BAE on this thread, it does seem to do rather better in manufacturing and delivering to customers overseas, which now accounts for about 80% of its business.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Off the shelf
Tonker - presumably you don't want the F35 then, it still being in development. You'd rather wait until it's been in service for say a couple of years before placing an order?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Father Jack – the UK already has one of the most open defence procurement systems around, with none of the protective government support that you see in other markets such as France or even, dare I say, the US which adopts a ‘buy American’ policy.
Have you ever considered that may actually be one of the problems!
Have you ever considered that may actually be one of the problems!
...The 95% commonality bit...
All the nuts and bolts most of the rivets and fasteners, the canopy and the tail - will likely be the same.
The engine, the landing gear, the arresting gear and the main frame and wing structures are all that need to be different!
95% by description count - not by bulk of change.
All the nuts and bolts most of the rivets and fasteners, the canopy and the tail - will likely be the same.
The engine, the landing gear, the arresting gear and the main frame and wing structures are all that need to be different!
95% by description count - not by bulk of change.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To add to comments already made on this thread, the concept of a navalised Typhoon relies on a thrust vectored variant of the EJ200 engine to allow for a much reduced approach speed.
Already ‘bench tested’ thrust vectored EJ200s can apparently be fully integrated into Typhoon’s advanced FCS, allowing pilots to fly the steep approach path while the FCS manages engine nozzle position.
Take off would require a ski jump deck rather than catapult. Detailed piloted simulations, some of which were shown at Aero India recently, show the aircraft can take off in this way with a full weapon and fuel load!
Already ‘bench tested’ thrust vectored EJ200s can apparently be fully integrated into Typhoon’s advanced FCS, allowing pilots to fly the steep approach path while the FCS manages engine nozzle position.
Take off would require a ski jump deck rather than catapult. Detailed piloted simulations, some of which were shown at Aero India recently, show the aircraft can take off in this way with a full weapon and fuel load!
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not in my country
Age: 25
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you a bunch of idiots ? Your only chance to save the FAA is to buy the Rafale, and doing a deal with France to build 2 carriers, one for you and one for France !!! It will be the most cost effective solution !
YOU WILL NEVER GET THE F-35 !!!!!!!!
Should you be english for not understand that !
YOU WILL NEVER GET THE F-35 !!!!!!!!
Should you be english for not understand that !
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Craggy Island
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mend em and Backseatjock
Sometimes overruns and cost rises can't be helped, such as the shenanigans resulting from the Germans prevaricating over Eurofighter in the early nineties and the general bun-fight over workshare on this and other multinational projects. However, notwithstanding political and ministerial pressures and wrangling, you still expect the company to produce the goods. Typhoon still isn't deployable in the A/G role and now they're pi$$ing about with carrier variants.
I totally opposed the decision to axe MRA4 but if BWoS had conceived a more achievable design that could have been fielded nearer 2000 than 2010 then the dilemma wouldn't have arisen.
The same SoS (Portillo) who foisted MRA4 on us also insisted on foisting a smaller number of problematic and less capable Mk3 Merlins on us instead of a greater number of Chinooks for the same money (the RAF's preferred choice).
Why buy Apaches off the shelf from Boeing when you can get Westlands to build them for twice the price?
Army Wildcat = white elephant.
I don't disagree that we should be wary of the promises of any company, foreign or domestic, who are touting for business but you cannot deny that the defence of this nation has been harmed by politically motivated procurement choices.
I totally opposed the decision to axe MRA4 but if BWoS had conceived a more achievable design that could have been fielded nearer 2000 than 2010 then the dilemma wouldn't have arisen.
The same SoS (Portillo) who foisted MRA4 on us also insisted on foisting a smaller number of problematic and less capable Mk3 Merlins on us instead of a greater number of Chinooks for the same money (the RAF's preferred choice).
Why buy Apaches off the shelf from Boeing when you can get Westlands to build them for twice the price?
Army Wildcat = white elephant.
I don't disagree that we should be wary of the promises of any company, foreign or domestic, who are touting for business but you cannot deny that the defence of this nation has been harmed by politically motivated procurement choices.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Green
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Detailed piloted simulations, some of which were shown at Aero India recently, show the aircraft can take off in this way with a full weapon and fuel load!
My basic aviation history knowledge tells me that navalising an aircraft is never straightforward, you never get what you paid for, if at all... and although I wouldn't have put it as vehemently as xerox, I think there is a bit of common sense there... you're good at playing rugby, frogs are good at making planes...
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, here goes!
A and C
I have absolutely no doubts about that! I have worked on both sides and have seen the best and worst of both but I have never seen any of the machiavellian conspiracy theories spouted by many on here. And I DO agree that if BAES can't deliver then it should pay the fair consequences.
Father Jack
Agree BAES not blameless but this is NO WAY a one-sided argument!! half-arsed and nebulous fits better for MoD most of the time.
Willard Whyte
Absolutely not, but in your bile and vitriol you forget there are real people behind the logo, the vast majority of whom try and do a good job both for their company but also for those that use the kit.
I am far more real than you I fear.
Green Granite,
Agreed, but then overseas customers don't have the MOD to screw things up.
And there you have it ...........NAIL.......HEAD!! 
I really would love to see those who post on here and love to criticise actually be in the positions of those they spend so much time picking on and do a better Job!
A and C
BAe cant deliver on time or on budget, I worked (hard) for an airline like that, it went bust and I was on the dole.
Nothing personal but you must face the fact that just because you work (hard) for BAe your job should be protected for life.
Nothing personal but you must face the fact that just because you work (hard) for BAe your job should be protected for life.
Father Jack
However the corporate entity that is BAE Systems has consistently let this country and it's defences down and we simply cannot indulge another half-arsed, nebulous BAE project when the obvious answer is to buy something that has been clearly shown to be fit-for-purpose and available within the schedule and budget.
Willard Whyte
Right, so we owe them a living.
Get real or get out.
Green Granite,
For all the criticism of BAE on this thread, it does seem to do rather better in manufacturing and delivering to customers overseas, which now accounts for about 80% of its business.
I really would love to see those who post on here and love to criticise actually be in the positions of those they spend so much time picking on and do a better Job!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Down West
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All this is academic when the UK aren't interested anyway and the Indians have their own indiginous naval aircraft.
Eurofighter Offers Technology Transfer; U.K. Rejects Naval Eurofighter Variant in Favor of F-35 JSF | India Defence#
Eurofighter Offers Technology Transfer; U.K. Rejects Naval Eurofighter Variant in Favor of F-35 JSF | India Defence#
Last edited by oldgrubber; 28th Feb 2011 at 17:58.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm with Xerox on the fact that we'll never get an F-35 - its a boondoggle that will eventually be killed by the Yanks
We should maybe be looking at the Gripen and the F-18
We should maybe be looking at the Gripen and the F-18
