F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

[glad rag]

Originally Posted by DARK MATTER

My apologies if this has already been covered..it seems quite a recent report.


Operational Testers Flag F-35 Software Issues « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

It's all in the small print..

"Removal of test points by the combined JPO, industry and warfighting team occurs only after a thorough and disciplined review of what is required to deliver the promised capabilities.”

Obviously they missed out the on time and within budget bit along with the really important ensure step payments remain on track dit.

[LowObservable]

Jane's and BD are playing catch-up to AW&ST. Here's the original memo, by the way:

http://aviationweek.com/site-files/a...2810201%29.pdf

The story over the past few years has gone like this:

1 - Gilmore predicts delays. 2 - JSFPO and LockMart proudly announce they're on schedule. 3 - Gilmore demonstrates how tests were cut and simplified, and defects accepted, to avoid delay.

Today, at best, it looks like Block 4.1 (IOC 2019) will mostly be a less buggy version of 3F.

[Maus92]

If the F-35Bs advanced systems and capabilities are not needed in Syria, then why did the USAF insist that the F-22A was necessary to defeat Syrian air defenses during the initial airstrikes in that campaign? Either the advanced capabilities were not needed and the F-22A debut was a PR exercise, or the USMC cannot currently support their F-35Bs in a real world scenario.

[LowObservable]

But there was that big sea trial back in May that conclusively showed... Oh, wait...

http://www.pogoarchives.org/straus/2...D-FOIA-ocr.pdf

[KenV]

If the F-35Bs advanced systems and capabilities are not needed in Syria, then why did the USAF insist that the F-22A was necessary to defeat Syrian air defenses during the initial airstrikes in that campaign?

The thinking was that if air power was used against Syrian forces in direct support of rebel forces, that the Syrians would use their air defenses against such aircraft. That never happened. Instead, air power has been used to target ISIL/ISIS forces, which effectively supports Syrian forces rather than opposes them. So the Syrians have not used their air defenses against those aircraft. If things changed and US and/or NATO forces were to directly target Syrian forces in direct support of rebel forces, that would likely require F-22/F-35.

[LowObservable]

So why are they using the F-22, then?

[KenV]

So why are they using the F-22, then?

1. Show of force/intimidation
2. Electronic vacuum cleaner.

[Kitbag]

Originally Posted by LowObservable

But there was that big sea trial back in May that conclusively showed... Oh, wait...

http://www.pogoarchives.org/straus/2...D-FOIA-ocr.pdf

Interesting read, not unexpected to have problems. Hope the UK authorities have read this, some gotcha's that could be eliminated now before the QE & PoW are fitted out.
You have to wonder how much space will be taken up by spare engine power modules.

[chevvron]

Rumoured on spotters websites to be 5 scheduled to appear at this years Farnborough Airshow:
2 x USAF; 2 x USMC; 1 x RAF.
http://www.farnborough.proboards.com...1/airshow-news

[airsound]

Not just spotters, chevvron - here's a press release from Farnborough

FARNBOROUGH INTERNATIONAL AIRSHOW COULD WELCOME UP TO FIVE F-35s AT SUMMER SHOWCASE

UK MoD, US Marine Corps and US Air Force aircraft plan to participate in flying display at international trade show case and public weekend
Up to five F-35 joint strike fighter aircraft are planned to participate in the flying display at the Farnborough International Airshow this summer. Continuing a long tradition of aviation firsts for the event, this will be the first opportunity for many of the organisations involved in the development of the aircraft to showcase their achievements in the making of the aircraft to a major international trade audience.

Speaking about the announcement, FIL Commercial Director, Amanda Stainer, said, "The fact that the UK MoD, US Marine Corps and US Air Force have chosen the Farnborough International Airshow to demonstrate the aircraft is testament to the show’s standing as a major international aerospace event. The F-35 joint strike fighter programme is very significant for many companies that participate in the show and they will be very excited at the opportunity to demonstrate their participation in the programme."

In the last few days both the US Marine Corps and US Air Force have announced that they plan to bring both the F-35A and F-35B aircraft to demonstrate at the show, Furthermore, at least one British jet is expected to participate. Defence Secretary Michael Fallon said. "The F-35s are the most advanced fast jets in the world. Whether operating from land or from one of our two new aircraft carriers - the UK’s largest ever - they will ensure we have a cutting edge and formidable fighting force."

"The plan for F-35 aircraft to take part in air shows here in the UK this summer is a significant milestone – for our RAF and Royal Navy personnel training hard to fly the F-35; for British industry who are contributing an impressive 15 per cent of every aircraft; and for the British public who will have their first opportunity to see this remarkable aircraft in action."

As well as during the trade show, the F-35 will also participate in the flying display at the public weekend allowing the general public to enjoy the spectacle of this major new aircraft. Responding to the news, Shaun Ormrod, Chief Executive for Farnborough International Ltd said, "Its great news that we can welcome the F-35 to the show, visitors at the public weekend will be amongst the first to see this aircraft outside the US. "

However, RIAT and FIA may be pipped in the 'international début' stakes by the Netherlands. Aerospace Daily says the RNlAF show at Leeuwarden is hoping to have an F-35 flying at the show the month before.

airsound

[FODPlod]

Originally Posted by Kitbag

...You have to wonder how much space will be taken up by spare engine power modules

The QECs have nine decks of store rooms with hangar volumes of 29,000 cubic metres so there shouldn't be any problem stowing the odd spare.

Originally Posted by chevvron

Rumoured on spotters websites to be 5 scheduled to appear at this years Farnborough Airshow:
2 x USAF; 2 x USMC; 1 x RAF.
http://www.farnborough.proboards.com...1/airshow-news

How annoying for the F-35 doom mongers if this transpires. Anyone reading this forum would expect Lightning IIs to be falling out of the skies like flies despite achieving circa 60,000 flying hours (open to correction) to date without any significant aerial mishap.

[PhilipG]

Whilst it is good to see that F35s will be flying to the UK this year, I do wonder what sort of display they will be allowed to undertake, considering that only the USMC planes have achieved IOC, that is assuming that the two planes coming over are from that squadron.

The "displays" that have been conducted in the US so far have been quite pedestrian as I understand it, basically just flying in and out of the destination.

Displaying with a "test load" software might bring up some interesting liability questions.

[FODPlod]

Might the USMC aircraft be F-35Bs? Incidentally, what's wrong with calling the F-35B Sea Lightning anyway?

[Maus92]

@PhillipG: There is not an approved demo flight routine for US F-35s. That is the case for now, as it was two years ago prior to the F-35A flailing itself to death on the runway at Eglin. Last year at Oshkosh, the F-35As flew an arrivals routine, and an extended taxiing routine to the parking stand (that was unintentional: the pilot got lost - so much for sensor fusion.)

Whether or not the UK F-35 will have limits, IDK for sure, but I think the follow whatever the JPO decides/allows.

[PhilipG]

@Maus92: I think that we are thinking the same, it is unlikely that anything more than arrival and departure flights as at Osckosh, with better situational awareness one hopes, will be on the cards.

Reducing expectations a long way well before the event...

[Vzlet]

"Real" Demos

Two years ago at MCAS Cherry Point, the demos included short takeoffs and landings, hovering, high and low speed passes, and mixed-type formations. They certainly weren't as aggressive and dynamic as say, a Belgian F-16 routine, but weren't basic vanilla, either.


More pictures here.

[ORAC]

what's wrong with calling the F-35B Sea Lightning anyway?

because it's not it's name?

Official: Lightning II (ignore fact Americans have no regard for EE Lightning)

Unofficial: Dave.......

[FODPlod]

One. Did you click on the "Sea Lightning" link?

[airsound]

because it's not it's name?

You are, of course, right, ORAC. But there's more to it, isn't there?
There is presumably no difference between the F35B flown by a fishhead and one flown by a crab. Indeed, they'll all be flying them together, whether from a landlocked runway or a floating one. So a "Sea" Lightning is exactly the same as any other kind....

As far as Dave is concerned - I've forgotten how that came about. Anyone remember? (It is rather good though)

airsound

[Lonewolf_50]

Originally Posted by ORAC

because it's not it's name?

Official: Lightning II (ignore fact Americans have no regard for EE Lightning)

Unofficial: Dave.......

The original American Lightning was the P-38.
You are welcome.